If you’ve ever felt the pressure to hold it all together or questioned what you’re really chasing, this episode is for you. I’m sitting down with Jenn Kennedy for a raw and powerful conversation about walking away from a 7-figure business, healing the addiction to ‘doing’, and redefining success as a female breadwinner. 

We dive into what it really feels like to untangle your identity from achievement, why surrender isn’t something you can force, and how true healing often requires completely letting go. Tune in for a conversation about building success on a completely new foundation.

Jenn spent years feeling like there had to be more to life—but instead of ignoring it, she made a promise to chase it. Leaving her career as a teacher, she became a successful entrepreneur, transforming her mind, body, and life in the process. Now, through her podcast More., she shares raw, real stories and powerful conversations with experts and leaders to help you step into your own transformation. For more from Jenn, find her on Instagram and listen to her podcast.

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Emily: All right. We’re live. We’re live. Yay. I’m so excited. Me too. I’m so pumped for this conversation because yeah, you’re just an incredible inspiration to me. I thought we could start with maybe talking about your journey Yeah. Of going from seven figure coaching business to deciding to shut it down.

That a journey. Yeah. And I didn’t know you until after you made the decision to shut it down. We met and you were already in that phase of closing things down and like doing only a few coaching calls, but yeah. Yeah. You’ve been on such a beautiful journey. Thank you. 

Jenn: From the outside. I’m glad that it looks beautiful.

Yeah. Inspiring. Thank you. Yeah. It’s been a journey. Truly. I mean, you know, I did it for a long time. I. I mean, let’s say seven figure coaching for a couple years. Mm-hmm. And I just kept waking up feeling like there was something else. Mm-hmm. Like something more. Mm-hmm. And I think that that’s common for entrepreneurs, right?

Like you probably have it all the time. I think it’s like this innate pole within us of like, Hey, there’s something else here for you. There’s something, you know, more aligned on your path. And I just kept waking up feeling it. And I remembered, it’s so funny when you look back like what’s a Steve Jobs quote?

Like you can’t connect the dots looking forward. You can only connect them looking back. Mm-hmm. And I remember being on my porch, you’ll appreciate this like the spiritual side of us, right on my back patio. You know, you know, you know how you do it. You’re like, okay God, I’m ready for my next level. Like give it to me right now.

Clear down though, and like your silly naive human self is just like, it’s gonna be this fun, beautiful journey and I’m gonna have so much joy and, and then my life started to just slowly start to. I will say crumble, like things just started to fall out of place, like friendships business relationships, different ideas and programs.

And I kind of started to feel this inner turmoil that I had never felt before in, in business at all. Everything was pretty smooth and flowing, you know, throughout my, my career, if you could call it that. And I just realized like, some of these things have to start going, and one by one I started to let ’em go.

You know, I think from the outside when we tell the story, right, it’s like I had the seven figure business, I shut it down. It’s like, it doesn’t sound, it just sounds very peaceful. Mm-hmm. Right? Like what a totally little journey that was. And I had all this money and went on a sabbatical and it’s, it wasn’t anything like that.

Yeah. You know, truly the inner journey of. Shutting something down that my identity was completely tied up in. Mm-hmm. I mean, truly like I was a, an entrepreneur. I left an amazing career that I loved to become an entrepreneur. I built it to seven figures, which is on everyone’s vision board, right? Mm-hmm. I wanna be a million dollar entrepreneur.

And to close it down was, it was grueling to my ego, my identity, you know, to wake up one day and help hundreds of people all over the world and make, you know, a hundred thousand dollars plus a month, and then one, watch it go lower and lower and lower and lower and lower, and then all of a sudden be like, who am I when I’m not helping people?

You know, my entire, I was a teacher before this, and so my whole life, my number one job was to help someone. And when you let parts of your business go, when you’re not helping people anymore, and you wake up and you’re like, well, who am I without that, that role? Mm. And it sent me into. A really beautiful journey of, you know, inner work.

Mm-hmm. Of healing, of therapy, of really understanding myself, you know, plant medicine, all of the things. And to actually discover like, who am I when none of these things are attached to me when I don’t have a dollar amount or a business or a role in someone’s life to create my identity. Like, who am I now?

Mm-hmm. 

Jenn: And then I got pregnant, you know, on top of all of it. So it’s, it’s been a journey. 

Emily: Right. And it was such a like, beautiful journey of all that needing to happen before giving pregnant and having your little one, which I’ve seen you share, like, I’m so glad that I healed these things. Oh my God.

Before, yeah. She 

Jenn: came. Yeah. I mean, I was a hustler. Yeah. And I was a hustler. I mean, I think if you’re an entrepreneur at one point in time, you’ve been a hustler. You’ve, you can relate. Yeah. Right. Oh, I can totally relate. Right? Like, we hustle and we hustle well. Yeah, that’s the thing. Like I’ve watched and I love it and I love it.

Yeah. It fuels me. It’s exciting. It’s like that, that inner driver in me, right. And I realized after I stopped hustling, you know, when you, when you have your nervous system attuned to hustle and you stop, you’re going to inevitably fall into some sort of anxiety, depression, mental health battle, because the thing that kept you going all of a sudden is gone.

It’s like the rug being pulled out from underneath you. And so that’s what I had to, to face is like, why was I a hustler? And I realized the hustling was a safety mechanism my entire life to help me survive. And so then when you pull that, or you just stop that program from running, it literally feels like life or death.

Mm-hmm. And that’s what I felt like for about nine months. Honestly, I’m, if I’m gonna be feel about the timeline, like, oh my God, I, I, if I’m not doing this, how do I, how I didn’t feel like I could survive without it. And I had to really. You know, retune myself, if you will, rewire myself. And I’m glad I did that before my daughter, ’cause I now I can actually be like a peaceful mom and like be with her instead of having all these programs in the back of my head like, oh God, I gotta do this, gotta do that.

I’ve gotta achieve this. I’ve gotta reach this goal. And it still feels like a baby dear, learning how to walk sometimes, but I feel really grounded and, and good in it. 

Emily: Yeah. It’s so interesting we’re having, I don’t think we’ve had this deep of a conversation about your journey before. Yeah. And I feel like I’m still in the undoing of, of the same Yeah.

It’s the same pattern. And I actually just had a session with Samson, our friend, where I got to the root of like what I was running from in the session of like the feeling you’re running from and realizing, oh this is to survive, right? Like this is literally to your system life or death, and. Like, this was like four days ago that I had this session.

And, and so I don’t hear a lot of people talk about it like that. Like it, it’s like, oh, just stop hustling. Like just calm down or, you know, do less and as if it’s really easy. But it’s not easy to undo that. No. And you can like bake 

Jenn: your bread and like garden ERs is, both of us have, have turned to, you know Yeah.

To try to, to try to activate that part of us. But like I know in the beginning I was gardening and I was literally in the garden and my brain was like, okay, but how are you gonna do this? But what are you gonna do about this? Like, I was doing it, but my system was still like on overdrive, Uhhuh. And I mean, how long do you think you lived like that for?

I think I can trace it back to like, it started at five, six, quite literally the same thing. Yeah. It chills absolutely the same thing. So like, we’re talking for me 30 years. Yeah. 25 years. Right. That your system is quite, that’s, it’s how it’s programmed like a computer system. Right. And it’s just going and 

Emily: it’s doing.

I think for me the shift has been this is doing it to actually protect you. Like it thinks. And so you’re like, stop. I wanna surrender. And where I got to in my session was like, you’re trying to stop controlling with more control, like Samson’s. Like that’s, that’s not gonna work. You can’t be like, just, just let go and surrender.

Jenn: Okay. But when I surrender, I just wanna make sure that I have my, all of my tools with me. Yeah. And I’m surrendering at 17 miles per hour. Exactly. I’m doing it right. No, babe, you’re still controlling. It’s so true. Yeah. But that’s how, you know, wise, our psyche is, you know, like the, the little part in us that is like, no, it, you don’t understand if I stop this, I’m literally gonna die.

Exactly. Like that’s what the internal dialogue is. Mm-hmm. And, and if you don’t tune into it, as you know, you never hear that. And then you just keep going. Yeah. Yeah. But eventually your body, you know, makes you stop. Right. But the hope is that you don’t get to that point that it’s a 

Emily: force. What was the, what do you think was the catalyst for you to actually make the change?

Because I think what I’m realizing is like just feeling a little too tired or like, oh yeah. Not liking it. It’s, it’s not enough. Right. No worse when our body is like, this is life or death. Yes. I need to do this. Like, you have to hit a point where, where the other side is more painful. Yes. Than what you’ve been living for the 25, 30 

Jenn: years.

Yeah. This is so hard. Right. Because the mind can be like, okay, well I don’t wanna do this anymore and I wanna try it in a different way, or whatever it is. But the body is like, no, this is terrifying. Right. So the catalyst, you’re right. The other, the other side has to be, I wouldn’t say painful, because everyone’s driven by something else.

Mm-hmm. I would, I like to say the word enticing. Mm. Right? Like, it’s gotta be enticing enough to be like, okay, hold on. I might wanna put this down. You know? Yeah. Like, I think about like, if you’re on a diet, right? I don’t diet, nor do you like Yeah. We probably eat a lot of food. Yeah. I know you do. With all the CrossFit that you do.

But it’s like, okay, if let’s say that you’re like, I’m gonna eat clean and there’s a, there’s a really delicious dessert. It has to be enticing enough that you’re like, you know what? I’m going to eat it. Mm-hmm. Or you feel so unhappy with it in your body that eating clean and, and starting an exercise regimen is enticing enough.

Right. So for me, there wasn’t necessarily like an event. Mm-hmm. I mean, I had a huge falling out with a mentor that I was working. Mm-hmm. Like that was really, really painful. Like, it, it, it, it. Touched on every single core wound that I had from my childhood. And so that was a really painful thing. I also just had this feeling that it wasn’t like the way that I was operating just wasn’t the way that it was supposed to be.

Like, it’s kind of like I can think about like my ex-boyfriend, right, from 20 years ago, right? And or 15 years ago. And when I broke up with them, it’s not like anything was wrong. I just had this inner feeling like, this just isn’t the way that love is supposed to feel. 

Mm-hmm. 

Jenn: You know? And so that’s how it was for me, like sitting on that back patio and, and even just asking like, I really want a new level.

It was really more like, I don’t wanna do it this way anymore. I want a more fun, more freeing, more aligned, if you will. You know, I know a lot of those words are very big buzzwords, but I’m like, I want a way that just feels like mine. And I saw only a few people on the interwebs doing that like that. I, I genuinely felt like, okay, this, this, this feels like their life’s work.

Like Dr. Joe Dispenza, right? Mm-hmm. I’m like, I look at the man he is in his, like, his life’s work. You know, same with Tony Robbins, like him, like these two hate these two. It doesn’t really matter. But like you look at Tony Robbins and you’re like, homeboy is in what God put him here to do. Totally. You know, and he’s not doing it from an ego or a money standpoint.

He’s like, he’s, they’re in their work. And I was like, if it’s possible for them, it’s gotta be possible for me. And this whole like world that I’m in, it doesn’t feel like this is it. Mm-hmm. And so I think you me, I merged those two together and it was enough of an enticing to whatever voice inside of me.

I like to actually probably my truest highest self. That was like, okay, hold on, there’s another way. That I could be doing this. ’cause listen, nothing would be more enticing than making a ton of money. I was driven by money my entire life from the moment, I mean, I worked two jobs the day I turned 14. And when I became an entrepreneur, full-time entrepreneur in 2019, that was my first time I ever just did one thing at like, I was always doing multiple things.

Even when I had my career as a teacher, like money was my, a hundred percent my core driver. Because we didn’t have it. We always thought we were gonna lose our house. We were always in survival mode with money. I could never, we never even can go out to eat. Like we literally did not have money sometimes for surviving.

And so for me, I was like, if I can just make more money, I’ll be safe. Right. And I’ll be okay. And so, you know, to let that go, it, there was just this peaceful feeling that there’s just something else mm-hmm. That I just had to lean towards. 

Emily: Yeah. Yeah. Was it like, did you feel like as much as you chased and.

Ran towards the achieving. There was like a Still an emptiness. 

Yeah. 

Emily: That’s where I’ve gotten, yeah. Is like, okay. That ex, there’s more than the external. Yeah. Validation. Yeah. Like, it’s not doing it for me anymore. There’s more, 

Jenn: yeah. I wouldn’t even use the word empty ’cause I think that that has such a weird, you know what I mean?

Like, it’s such a weird feeling. I would say that there was almost just like this insatiable hunger, right? Where I was like, Hmm, I’m just feeling like, yeah, there’s just something more, or I’m feeling like I’m not satiated. I’m not satisfied. I’m not like I would go to bed. I’m curious if you did this too.

Like, I would go to bed at night when I was making millions of dollars and I would be grateful. I was grateful for my life. I was grateful for what I had. I was grateful for the money. I was grateful for my work. Like I was, I was grateful for it. Like I, I couldn’t believe I could do this, you know, like help people make all this money.

It was so cool. But yeah, I just felt like there was just. Yeah, I was never satisfied. It was like I would, I was like a bottomless pit. Yeah. And then I was confused. I’m like, what the hell? I have all these things. I should be grateful. I am grateful. Especially ’cause I came from like nothing. So I, I have that gratitude, but why do I feel like there’s something missing?

Emily: And I think it, it gets the light shone on it when shine on it. When it’s like you made it to where you thought once you got there completely, then you’d be all good. Yeah. Like, ’cause I mean, my story is like, I was a young mom and so we didn’t have any money course, and it was like, yeah. Straight into survival of really trying to prove everybody like that I could do this because everybody told me I couldn’t.

But once I got a, my kids got a little older, the business was making money. I had more than I ever thought. Then it’s like, but wait, you know, I got to that place and I’m still not satisfied. Literally like, you 

Jenn: feel like a limb is missing. Mm-hmm. And you’re like, but wait, why I did it. You know, like, that was me.

I was like, I did it. Look at me and I did it. You too. We did it over and over and over and over and over. It’s not like we just got to the finish line once, like we kept going and kept going and kept going. 

Mm-hmm. 

Jenn: And yeah, it’s interesting when you’ve got all the things outside, but then you feel that inside.

And then the more that you lean into it. ’cause I mean, I didn’t lean into it. I was just like, well, cool, I’ll just make $200,000 more. You know, like, just, I’ll just make more. But I, the more I leaned into it, the more I realized that it’s like, yeah, there’s, there’s that, that depth that I’m like yearning for inside.

And when we feel like we’re missing something inside, we’re, we’re programmed to go look outside. Mm-hmm. You know, we do it with not only money, we do it with status, we do it with Instagram followers, we do it with views, we do it with our, our spouses. I mean, I’ve got a lot of single friends right now, they’re like, life will just be better when I find my man.

Yeah. Like, trust me it won’t Yeah. Like, yeah. Or friends that are like, life will just be better when I have a baby. And I’m like. No, it won’t. Right, right. We do that. We’re missing this huge thing, and so we, we try to grab at the external. 

Mm-hmm. 

Jenn: And I mean, I did it not only with money, I did it when I moved to Austin.

I’m curious if you did this too, where I’m like, okay, where are my friends? Like, let me just be in a community that feels good and let me just be like, you know, with this group we’re at this networking event or at this party. And I tried to like see where I fit into a community and I’m like, oh, well shit, that didn’t do it either.

Yeah. You know? 

Emily: Yeah. It’s so easy to be like, that’s the problem. Like, I just don’t have enough friends or, or it’s my husband’s fault, like always like he needs to change and then I’ll feel better. 

Jenn: You know what, if you could just keep the house a little tidier, my life would be so much better. Yeah. And, and again, like, and everyone has it in some way, shape, or form.

Right. If I could just have the car, if I could have the house, if I could have the kid, if I could have the dollars, whatever it is, we all do it. And when you realize you’re not doing it because you’re a greedy person, you’re doing it because you think that thing is really gonna fulfill and make you whole.

Mm-hmm. 

Jenn: When you realize that that’s just a piece of you that’s missing, then you can go in and be like, well, what do I really want? 

Mm-hmm. 

Jenn: Right. It’s not that nobody, nobody wants money. We want the freedom. Yeah. We want what money can, right? Yeah. The freedom, the opportunity is like, that’s what we want. We want the fact that we think that the money can give us the clothes or whatever it is, and then you can feel it fully expressed in the world.

Right? So when you can lean in and be like, what do I really want here? Unconditional love, belonging, safety, security. It’s all the same thing that everyone wants. We just think we’re trying to get it in different ways. Yeah. 

Emily: We’ve had conversations around the pressure that you felt with the seven figure business, and, and I’ve, I feel that have that, do you think that when you haven’t healed that version of you and the ability to really handle maybe that level of pressure, that it, it becomes really challenging to be in that place?

Guess what I’m saying is, is your goal to build another seven figure business mm-hmm. And have the pressure that comes with a seven figure business, or did this journey show you that you don’t want that? Like mm-hmm. Because we’ve had conversations around how horrible that pressure is of like Yeah. The cash flow.

Just, just how much is on you and both of us being the breadwinner in those situations. Absolutely. And, you know, getting resentful for that and, and just, I feel like, I don’t know if the answer to this, but when you can heal that Yeah. From within and become more grounded Right. And like regulated. Yeah. Can you then handle that type of pressure and have the seven or even eight figure business?

Right. 

Jenn: Honestly, I don’t ever want pressure again in my life. If possible. Okay. Pressure’s gonna happen. Yeah. Yeah. Trust is gonna happen, problems are gonna happen. It’s a sign that we’re alive. Right. And that’s often where we grow. I don’t ever want to be in a place that I’m creating pressure from work.

And I think the reason why is because I wanna do work that just feels like I wanna do work that feels good, I wanna do work. Like, and, and it always, it did feel good what I was doing, but I wanna feel like peaceful in the work that I’m doing. I wanna feel excited. I wanna feel creative, re creative. 

Mm-hmm.

Jenn: And I don’t want that pressure ever again because I think that when we have pressure to perform, or pressure to make money or pressure to succeed, yes. It’s one hell of a driver, literally. Like it is, like, it is like supercharged battery on a Tesla, right? Like it is one hell of a driver. But I don’t think that we can sustain it over time, especially as women who are also moms.

Because what I’ve realized is when you’re a mom, like there’s a difference between a mom and a dad. Absolutely. Because the, the bond that we have with the kids, because they’ve been inside of us and we’ve fed them and we’ve nursed them, right? Like that bond. It is, is is a lot for us as women, like, call it or like, you enjoy it, you don’t enjoy it.

It’s, it’s a lot even in the enjoyment of it. And I, I don’t think that we’re meant to sustain that amount of pressure as, as moms. Mm-hmm. And as women. 

Mm-hmm. 

Jenn: I have yet to find a woman who has use that pressure and then been able to sustain it with that pressure. My therapist always says the goal is that like the, the pressure or whatever we wanna call it, the intensity, it’s like a rocket that like, okay, it gets you up into the atmosphere, but then you don’t need it once you’re in the atmosphere because the orbit takes over.

Mm-hmm. 

Jenn: Right. And so, yeah, I don’t want that pressure ever again. Do I wanna build a seven figure eight figure company? Absolutely. Yes. I love having money. I love what I do with money. I love that money. Like I truly believe that money when it’s in the hands of good humans, we can do good things in this world.

And I think we’re in a place. Globally, whatever, economically, whatever you wanna say that like, more and more good people need to have the money in their hands. Yeah. You know, and, and we’re actually in, I, I saw this, this woman, she was like the, something of like Citibank or something. I’m gonna completely butcher any part of her name or title.

So maybe we’ll find it and put it in the show notes. So I’m, so we’re, you know, give her credit, we have accurate pieces of information here, but she was talking about how like we’re in this age right now where global wealth is shifting into our age and actually more so in the hands of women. Mm. And it like gave me chills listening to it for two reasons.

One, I was like, okay, I hope that it’s not shifting in the hands of women who think that we have to sacrifice being a mom and being fulfilled for success because there’s a lot of women operating that way. 

Mm-hmm. 

Jenn: I hope that. We can recognize that there is a new way that we can build businesses and be successful.

Seven, eight figure companies that doesn’t rely on pressure, that doesn’t rely on lack, that just relies us like loving what we do and doing good work and growing, you know, our families and helping raise the next generation. Like that job is equally as important. We’ve just been programmed for us not to think that it is.

Mm-hmm. 

Jenn: You know, I think we’ve been programmed to think that we had pressure to be successful. Yeah. And we’ve both done it and like, I don’t wanna do it ever again. Like, I don’t want that pressure and I don’t want that pressure in my home. Right. You know, it was a lot to be the sole provider 

Emily: mm-hmm. 

Jenn: Of a family 

Emily: and then, and then add a team and oh, my role add this person 

Jenn: and this, you know, like, and then kids like, yeah.

It’s a lot. Completely. It’s a lot. It’s fun when you’re young and it’s just like, it was great when my husband and I lived in an RV and we didn’t have any responsibility. You know, throw a mortgage, throw bills, throw all that in there, like it’s not. It, it doesn’t get it. It’s how I wanna say this. It stops being fun really fast.

And I actually have many friends, and I’m sure you do as well, that were the seven, that are the seven figure entrepreneurs and their, their husbands, you know, provide less than or none. Mm. And every single woman is feeling the same pressure. 

Mm-hmm. 

Jenn: Of like, I just kind of wanna lean back 

Emily: and I feel that, I feel it right now.

Right. If we’re being honest. Yeah. Like that’s where I’m at. Yeah. Yeah. Like how nice would it be to just like exhale. Yeah. Be able to actually surrender. 

Jenn: Yeah. And I’ll, I haven’t shared this story, but like, there was a moment, it was June of what, 2023. So I was like shutting everything down. I was like, like not everything.

I was like little bit by little bit shutting stuff stuff down. And I had a team and I was the sole provider of my family. My husband wasn’t doing his career path at that time. ’cause my business was a multiple million dollar business. You know, so why would he. And I was on the couch and I, I, I was like screaming, crying, like, you know, one of those cries, it was like past, it was like anger mixed with despair, right?

Mm-hmm. Which I’m so glad ’cause I forever, my entire life, I never was the angry one. I was always the calm one, right? Mm-hmm. Just keep everyone cool. So the fact that I could feel and express anger was huge, especially with him. And I was like screaming and crying and I was like, you don’t understand, I just need a break.

Mm-hmm. And I was like, I need like three months off to not do anything. And I’m like screaming and crying this. And he’s like looking at me like, oh my God. And I, I at the same time almost had an out body experience where I’m like, who the hell am I saying this? I love to be the, the achiever. Like, I’ve been doing this since I was 14.

But I had just had that like, almost, it was a breaking point where I’m like, I can’t do it anymore. And I never, ever in my life thought I’d be there, but I, I completely broke and I was screaming at him and I was like, I need you to help. I need you to go get something. I need you to go do something ’cause I can’t keep this up anymore.

And and that was the beginning of me really. Instead of just like, let me just let this go and let this go. That was the beginning of me being, okay, I’ve gotta get rid of my team. I’ve gotta get down to like, what’s the bare minimum and ride that out as long as I need to. I said three months. It ended up being over a year.

Emily: Yeah. And a half. So that was the start. That was like the, okay, something has to change. 

Jenn: Yeah. I think before that point I was trying to keep it all together. Right. I think we get to that point where like, you know. The universe was like, I’m about to crumble this. And you’re like, no, 

let me just hold on all pieces 

Jenn: together.

You know? Like I literally was waking up with jaw tension every day. I’m always, always a very like, calm, like I can handle stresses. Like nothing really, nothing really gets to me. Like I, I really do like roll with the punches of life, if you will. Like, I just kind of let things go. I don’t really attach to things.

And so when I was waking up every single morning with intense jaw pain and almost like my chest, I couldn’t take a deep breath. Like my shoulders. I felt like everything was just like, I was just trying to hold everything together. And I was like, okay, I realize that I’m letting things go, but I’m still controlling this.

Yeah, you’re controlling the surrender. Right. Exactly. Crap. And there it was equal parts, me letting things go and God, universe, whatever people believe in being like, let this go. Loosen. Like I feel like for a long time I was playing tug of war where I’m like, no, I’m not ready. And I was like, you don’t have a choice.

Let go of the damn thing. 

Emily: Yeah. 

Jenn: And it was tough. 

Emily: Yeah. So now as you have started rebuilding and, and going in a little bit different direction with your business and more of your passion, and I know we’ve had conversations around that, what are like some tactical things you’re doing or specific things you’re doing to not have that pressure again?

Jenn: Mm. 

Emily: This sounds 

Jenn: crazy. I don’t think I could have that pressure even if I wanted to. You just would be like, no, I, I literally can’t. I can’t. Yeah. It’s kind of like if I asked you to do yin yoga every day Right. For 14 days, you’d be like, no, I can’t. I literally can’t do that. Yeah. You’d go crazy, right?

Like Yeah. A CrossFitter versus like doing ye and yoga is like, you, you wouldn’t ever sweat. You’d be like, this is a waste of my life. Yeah. Like, give me that back. Right. That’s, that’s how I feel right now. Like, I truly, I can’t, I, I, I’ve tried ’cause I’m like, okay, I know what drives me. Pressure and scarcity.

I can’t do it. 

Emily: Because you’ve literally healed your system. Yeah. Like, I literally, like that is true healing. Yes. Because I, I see it so much, and I think I’m, I mean, I’m 100% guilty of this. You think you’ve overcome the thing and then you’re like, oh, I’m just back doing the same thing, dude. Literally. But you have to heal the, your actual system and your body and your nervous system and what you’re attuned to, and you have successfully done that.

And super inspiring to me. Thank you. Because we’re so similar and I’m not where you are yet. 

You will. 

Jenn: Yeah, you will. It’s a journey. We, you will, I honestly think if anyone’s on that path, if anyone’s got that feeling, you’ll be there. I hope it’s not as grueling as mine was, and if it is, just call me. I’m not too far away.

Like, I got you as much as I can, you know, but I, yeah, I, I honestly couldn’t. I’ve tried, I’ve sat with my therapist, I’m like, listen. I want to like, like, help me with this. And he’s like, you can’t, because like that exiled part of you, you’ve, you’ve brought it like, you’ve incorporated it back into your life, into your body.

Like you, you can’t tap back into it anymore. It’s the, the analogy is, and I don’t think you had this time in your life ’cause you were such a young mom. You probably did. You’ve never told me you had this time in your life, so I don’t think you have. But it’s like, when I was in college, I was a binge drinker.

Like I blacked out about 90% of the time, of my four and a half years in college. Like I was a raging alcoholic to the point where like, it was, it was, it was an issue. But you’re all in college, so you’re like, no, it’s not. We’re just college students. There’s no way I could drink as much right now as I did then.

Right? I couldn’t bong a beer. I couldn’t carry a bag of wine around me and like have people drink it. Like, I don’t have that in me anymore. That part of me is gone. That’s literally what it feels like. Hmm. That’s so 

Emily: amazing though. 

Jenn: Yeah. 

Emily: I, I know a handful of people have gone through that and I actually look up to it.

I’m like, I wanna get there. 

Jenn: Like, I don’t wanna drink anymore. Yeah. I don’t wanna anymore. Exactly. Well, I think the hard thing is that we don’t, you are like, I don’t wanna do it anymore. I didn’t wanna do it anymore either, but I kind of did. ’cause it feels good, right? It’s like that part of you, that survival part of you.

But like we have to, the other side has to be enticing enough. Mm-hmm. And it’s like, what do we want? We want success. We want success. It’s fun, you know, it’s great to have money. It allows us to live the life that we live. Like we want to have the success. And so it’s, it’s, we have to have a belief that we can still be successful 

Emily: without, without pressure.

Yeah. Right. And that only comes, I think, from proving that to yourself with some experiences of getting the. The actual evidence completely that you can do it. Yeah. 

Jenn: And unfortunately we don’t have a lot of evidence, right? Like, like you and I, like we could have lo we probably did, you know, seven years ago I logged on Instagram and I saw women hustling hard and making a lot of money and helping a lot of people.

And I’m like, I got that. We had evidence that that worked, right? How much evidence do we have in the world that it works? Doing it like your way, A peaceful way. A fun, not a lot. Not a lot. No. And we also associate peace with laziness. We associate peace in, in and surrender and trust. We associate that, if you really think about it with weakness, right?

Like, ugh, I’m not gonna peace like this. Yeah, you die when you’re peaceful. Like, come on. And a part of it was if we roll back to, you know, our like ancestral conditioning, if you were like peaceful in the woods, you were a tar, a sitting target. You always had to be on guard, you know? And so I think that we have to rewire that within us that way.

Wait, wait. Peace. Surrender trust, like all of these things that we’re tattooing on our bodies because we need the reminder. Read it so bad sometimes. I have one right here that’s Yeah. You already know, which is very similar. And yeah, I look at it, I’m like, God, it’s bad enough that I have it tattooed on my arm.

Right? How many people, we have these tattooed, like remember surrender. Right? We, we have to believe that that’s safe and that that can get us there. Mm-hmm. And I really do believe that it can, I’ve only met a handful of people that, that I should say, appear to be living that way. Mm-hmm. Because unfortunately these types of conversations aren’t ones that people are having on the internet of like, yeah, so I made seven figures and then I hated my life and now here I am.

You know, like the people aren’t, aren’t having those conversations yet. But I really do think we’re gonna see a whole new wave of entrepreneurship in the future where we can have the peace 

Emily: and I think. What stands out to me about your journey is like, there, there are people who will talk about, oh, I, I exploded this thing and I shut it down, and this dramatic story, but they end up right in the same place.

Like they don’t actually do the work to heal. Yeah. And that’s the difference between your journey is you actually followed through with not making the money for a while with having to cut. Like that’s hard. I mean, I know for me it’s like I really like my lifestyle right now. Like I, I need my nanny. I need, I like to travel.

Like we have this like comfort level now that, that the money has gotten us hundred percent. So I feel like I couldn’t be like, oh, I’ll just give it all up. You, like, I wouldn’t be able to do it. So. But you went on the journey of like, the sacrifices I think that you would’ve had to do to, to let that go.

To like rebuild completely and actually heal. 

Jenn: Yeah. 

Emily: And it, and it’s not overnight and it’s not one month. Like that’s the thing too, is people wanna blow it up and then be like, okay, and I wanna be right back there next month. And it’s a process and it’s a, it’s a slow process. 

Jenn: It’s slow. And I honestly didn’t realize it was slow.

And if I realized it was so slow, I probably never would’ve been like, I’m gonna do it. Like, it’s been rough. Like my, our whole life changed like truly throughout time. But some of it was overnight. Some of it was like, okay, like. My gym memberships, my alive and well membership of like my biohacking stuff, my car.

Like we’re a one car family right now, which honestly is not that bad. I don’t know if anyone’s ever, like, if you and your spouse work from home, it’s, it’s great. I actually have a few friends that are like, I wanna do that too. Not ’cause I have to, but because I want to. And it’s, it’s pretty ideal. You know, we put our house on the market, like we’ve, we’ve literally changed our entire life and there’s so much that comes with that because, you know, when we make a certain amount of money, whether you’re an entrepreneur or not, that level becomes comfort, right?

And the comfort is perceived as safety, and safety is perceived as survival. So for me, like it was like, okay, I made a hundred thousand dollars months consistently for over a year and a half. That was safety. In all reality, I could live off of a thousand dollars a month. Like outside of, of, of, of my home, right?

Mm-hmm. Like, I really don’t need much. None of us really do, especially when you’re like us and you like to grow your own food and like make your own food. Like you really, it’s, yeah, we like organic, but we also like to grow it, right? Like we can save a lot of money. But you know, I I, it, it was, it was terrifying.

’cause I was like, hold on, I need this to survive. And when I started making less and less and less and less and less, I’m like, wait a second, I actually don’t need that to survive. And I told my husband, like, well, more millionaires again, one day. Like I actually like being frugal. Like, I like saving money.

The world that I was in, like this, like coaching world that I was in prior to shutting it all down, it was not like that. It was very much like the more you spend, the more you make, like, buy this, it’s flashy. Oh my God, it’s gram, yeah. Completely flashy. And it was like, it was very immature with money. Like, well, you can just make it and you can just get more of it.

So spend the money and make the money. And I realized like, I don’t like that. I love. I, I love saving money and having a purpose with my money and being intentional with money. So, you know, in making of less of it, I’ve actually been able to redefine who I like to be with, like a, you know, is it like a conduit, if you will, for money?

And I’m grateful for that. ’cause I don’t think I would’ve done that when I was making it all. 

Emily: It’s so true. And I think, I think having those, like, like, I guess it’s like a retraction period is so important in, in life and business. ’cause it kind of brings you back to a more stable place. ’cause you can get, okay, I’m making a bunch of money and now I’m like not paying attention and I am over spending and, and then it’s like, okay, wait, pull me back.

Yeah. Let me get intentional again with this. You like, what really matters? 

Jenn: Right. You know, like, and like for me, I do like nice things. Like I, who doesn’t, you know, I like them, but I’m like, we, I don’t really necessarily like nice things. I like nice experiences. Like I actually don’t hear about the things.

I like having a few nice things, you know, but like, besides that, like, I like experiencing life and what, the way that I, if you think about it, when you’re an entrepreneur and you’re, you’re programmed for that grind, you’re like, Hey, spend the money here and you’re experiencing it, but are you really there as you’re at the back of your mind going to, like, God, I gotta make my money.

I got launch coming up, or I’ve gotta do this, or I’ve gotta do this with my team. Like, it, it’s hard to fully experience it when, when that program continues to run on overdrive. Mm. You know? 

Emily: Yeah. So we tell ourselves we’re experiencing it, and then we’re thinking about the next thing. Right. And we’re not present.

I mean, that’s, yeah. A percent, you’re actually 

Jenn: disassociating in your own mind, which so many of us have just become conditioned to doing, like being here, but I’m not really here because I’m thinking about all of the other things and the next 

Emily: thing I gotta do and what I haven’t done yet. Yeah. And how behind I am.

Yeah. Yeah. So for people listening who are like, okay, I want. I want to heal that. ’cause I think a lot of entrepreneurs have that. Yeah. Drive of doing, running, chasing, that’s our normal. 

Jenn: Yeah. 

Emily: What is some advice you’d have? I mean, I know you’ve done a lot of therapy. Plant medicine has been a part of it.

Yeah. And obviously everybody’s journey is unique mm-hmm. To what they need. And I think an important thing is listening to yourself and what’s really, like what you’re called to completely in your journey. Like plant medicine is not the answer for everybody, you know? No. And I think we do that with the, okay, if I just get the therapist and I go once a week for six months, I’ll be healed.

Literally. See it everywhere just 

Jenn: doesn’t work that way, you know? 

Emily: So you’re, if I just 

Jenn: take MDMA four times and I’ll be per, or if I just take mushrooms, if I just microdose like it’s, yeah. We, because we see 

Emily: other people and we’re like, well they did MDMA and so if I do MDMA, I’ll have the same experience.

M Ill be healed. Don’t do that guys. But it’s, it’s the right, it’s the root of it that you have to. Heal. So I guess, what’s your advice to someone listening who goes, oh, I have that. Yep. You know, and I don’t, I don’t feel present. I, I don’t, I don’t feel fulfilled. I’m always chasing, yeah. What would you tell them?

Jenn: Well, I first wanna say that I don’t think people’s journeys have with letting it all go and figuring it all out and healing have to be as long as mine. Like, you know, you, we, you know, we talk about this in, in the coaching industry and marketing and entrepreneurship all the time. Like, hire the person or get in the room with the person and they built the business in 10 years and now you can build it in five.

Right? We talk about this in with Business Grove all the time. Like, that’s why we hire people to help us. Right? I really believe the same can be true with this journey. Like, I didn’t see anyone go on it before me, like anyone, so I was in it, figuring it out, figuring it out as I’m in it. And you know, we had coffee many times where I’m like, yeah, I think I’m gonna do this.

I think I’m gonna do this. I didn’t know I was in it at that time, but I was very much in it at that time. Right. So, like, I think for me, it took a really long time because I didn’t have. I didn’t have support. I did have support. I had healers, I had my therapist, I had my husband. I, I didn’t even really realize that, that I needed those things, but I had them.

And I think that because I didn’t see anyone in it, I didn’t really know what was on the other side. I didn’t trust it. I was terrified. I held on for a lot longer. Which means if you hold on for longer, it’s gonna, the journey is gonna be so much more, you know, more grueling and longer than it needs to be.

So first I would say to somebody if you feel like you’re in it, like where can you loosen your grip and where can you get the help? And like the quicker that you just let go, the quicker you’re gonna be out on the other side of it. Yeah. You know, like, we know this and the only way out is through. Right?

Like, keep holding on. Good luck. You can’t have the flashlight throughout the tunnel. You just can’t. You gotta blindly walk. So that would be my number one piece of advice. Find yourself and find, find someone who’s been in that and like, use their story to, to speed your journey up would be a first piece of advice.

The second piece would be, yeah, get help. Like have some outside perspective. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Like, that’s why I stayed in therapy and I actually, the, the more that I was in the journey, the less plant medicine I was doing I’m a big proponent of plant medicine. I don’t think everybody should do it. I don’t think that anyone should just go run to it.

I think it’s def as you know, it’s definitely something that you need to be called to and make sure that you have people that know what they’re doing with it. But the more that I was in like the, the depression and the anxiety of it, the less that I was doing that because plant medicine can disassociate you.

It does disassociate you, it takes you somewhere else. It elevates your state and that can be really confusing. When you’re trying to figure your life out in intense. In intense, yeah. And it can be more traumatizing for people than not. So I actually tiled that back and I increased my therapy because I needed someone to just help me with my human, you know, like with where am I?

Why am I feeling these feelings and these emotions? Like what do I, what do I wanna do with them? What are they, what are they trying to tell me? You know? So I did a lot of parts work therapy of like, okay, there’s all of these different parts with me it’s called IFS, internal Family Systems. Mm-hmm. I have all these different parts within me and what’s real, what’s not real?

What’s it, what’s the, the, the protector in me and what’s like my truest self? And really actually kind of use that type of model to understand like, who am I without all of it, and then who do I wanna be moving forward? Yeah. So that was a really big help. And just trust, I mean, I know that you’ve been this as well, but like I realized that.

Actually, I dunno if you’ve done this. It developed a stronger faith within me of, of God sourcing risk, whatever, whatever percent. Yeah. But I realized that I was actually really faithful before, but I had my faith to help me succeed. Like, I was like, okay, well how can I make more money? Or how can I do this?

Or how can I like be a hap, like live a happier life? You know? Like I was really dependent upon using my connection with God source universe to help me further along myself. And I started to realize like, I need to restore my faith when I’m not doing well, and actually realize that I’m safe because I am supported even when I’m not doing well.

And so that was really, really hard. If I’m honest, but really important in my journey as well was to find some faith as my foundation. 

Emily: Yeah, me too. And I think a realization I had was, well, you can’t really surrender without faith. What are you surrendering to? Like, it’s not just like, oh, I’m gonna fall blindly off this bridge and just hope I survive.

Like Right. There’s gotta be some faith there and trust in order to surrender. Yeah. And I don’t know if this helps anyone listening, but where I’m at, like the biggest thing has been is I always come back to like, all right, gimme the checklist. Okay. Gimme the checklist of what to do. I know you, I just tell me, find safety in my checklist.

Tell me the steps. I’ll do the steps perfectly. But my homework currently right now is just accept, like, just accept without judgment because I, and it’s so deep for me that I don’t realize I’m even doing it, of course, where I’m like. Okay, well, you need to surrender this way, and if you do this, then you’re surrendering.

It’s like checklist your 

Jenn: surrender. 

Emily: I literally, it was like four days ago that Samson goes, Emily, you realize you’re using control to try not to control. 

Yeah, yeah. You’re like, this is working out. This 

Emily: is not surrendering. He’s like, all I want you to do is go, I’m feeling this right now. Mm-hmm. I’m feeling it here in my body.

No judgment, just acknowledgement. Because I’m so programmed to ignore that. 

Jenn: Of course. I’m so 

Emily: programmed to be like, override that. Nope. This is what I have to do. To literally put it in a box, be perfect, show up, good for everybody else. Yep. Have it all together. You know? I learned at a young age that being sad, being mad, anything beyond happy and okay was too much for people to handle.

Mm. So that was not safe and it was easier to just. Shove it down, be perfect, have it all together, be happy. And so I think I can trace back to like five, that that was when it started. And that shows up everywhere. And I read I don’t know if you’ve read yet, the Tell 

Jenn: No, I, the 

Emily: memoir. Memoir from Amy Griffin that just came out.

No. And I, I started reading it like a week ago, and she describes her life as like an overachiever as a kid. And the, the loneliness, she felt like she’d get the school award and then it’s like, something’s missing. And it just sent me into this like, oh my gosh. She’s describing, she’s describing me. And it’s, it’s rare for someone to actually like articulate it where I’m like, for sure.

Yeah. That’s me. So anyways, love that book. Yeah. I’m gonna, I’m gonna 

Jenn: dive into 

Emily: it. Yeah. But it, it, it, there’s not a checklist. There’s not a checklist, there’s not instructions on how, because it, it’s. Coming back to yourself. Yeah. Is ultimately like learn, learning how to acknowledge feelings completely your body.

Yep. Without judgment. Yeah. And it just, it just is, yeah. Like this is the belief, this is the thought that I’m having for sure. 

Jenn: You know, I would be so curious if we could do a survey, which we, we actually could, you know, ’cause we have platforms that we could survey people, right. Of how many people relate to being an an, the overachiever and how many people relate specifically women, because that’s ob I can’t relate to a man.

Right. I just can’t the overachiever, the compartmentalization, the, this emotion is good verse bad. Right. Like those three things right there. And I would bet like we’d be rocking 99.9%. Yeah. Right. So what we have to realize is that this isn’t just a me issue. This isn’t just a you issue. This isn’t just your mom and dad.

Programmed you this way, or my mom and dad and their divorce and their alcoholism and their addictions programmed me this way. Like, this is a global issue with our generation. Just like if we looked at our parents, you know, generation, like I would bet addiction is a global issue amongst that generation.

If I look at my grandfather’s generation, which, you know, just two back, which was the World War II vet, you know, vets like theirs was numbing and theirs, they probably died of a lot of heart attacks, right? Like there was a lot of young numbing, but also compartmentalization of emotions. Because I look at my grandfathers and they look at what they did, and then they came back home and PTSD wasn’t a thing back then, right?

It was just you put a happy face on and you deal with life, right? Which was a lot of abuse, a lot of neglect, right? So you look at this and we can trace it back. I like to go two generations back because those are the only, those are the grandparents I know, and those are the patterns that I know. We all, if you’re in the United States, maybe other countries, but I’m not, can’t, can’t go there ’cause I’m, I’m not them.

There are serious patterns that every single one of us are dealing with, and this is why the Me Too movement and the like, let’s, like women equality movement. This is why it was such a big thing because it’s like women being like, you know what? No, no, no. I’m gonna just be a man. I’m gonna hustle, I’m gonna grind.

I’m gonna go into the workplace and I want equality. I’m gonna, yep, I’ll nurse the babies, but I also want this, or I won’t have the babies and I want this. Like there’s a global flavor and a global attunement. And so when we recognize it’s not just you, it’s also me. Like, yes, we’re two completely different humans.

We’ve had completely different paths, but the core very similar. Then we can start to realize like, wait, we don’t, we shouldn’t have shame around this. We’re all on this path together. And so how can we all help each other and realize this is the way that we’re programed and conditioned? And then how do we consciously wanna be programmed and conditioned?

In the future, you know? ’cause what we don’t heal, we pass on and we’re either passing it onto each other because, hello, we’re all connected on social media all the time, or we’re passing it onto our children. Or you know, even, I wouldn’t say worse, but our children are they gonna swing on the other side of the pendulum like we often did to our parents.

So it’s like it, this is a global thing that we’re all experiencing in some way, shape, or form. So like drop the shame and start talking about it and start going on that path so that we don’t have to repeat it and over again. 

Emily: So true. And I mean that’s true impact, right there is when, when you can actually, like you’ve healed on this journey, but then you’re able to use that to help others heal.

For sure. In our generation. In our world, which then also yes. Impacts your kids and is 

Jenn: powerful. Yeah. I mean the medical system, right? Like we all know how, what stress does to our body. Inflammation. Do you think it’s a, do we think that it’s like a, a quaint ink that we have, like PCOS and thyroid issues and hashimo, like our generation has health issues even when you’re healthy.

Like I had adrenal fatigue and gut issues. Like we are the generation of gut problems, adrenal problems, thyroid problems, reproductive problems. Like why is IVF such a huge thing right now? Because our bodies are screaming. Yeah, they’re screaming. Calm down, slow down, heal me. Like we’re, we’re, we’re crying out for it.

Yeah. You know? And so it’s like, can we listen instead of just throwing more things at it? Can we listen? 

Emily: And technology has added so much to that. I mean, the level of noise. I think about that so much. Like we’re not meant to be constantly like just bombarded. No, we’re not meant to know everything either.

Like, no, you know, all these things happening. I forget where I saw a clip on that of like, humans are not meant to like know about every big event and traumatic things happening and everything in the world. Like it’s too much for us 

Jenn: to completely have that. Well, and the crazy thing is our generation, we’re not watching the news.

Call it a privilege, whatever you wanna call it. We’re not watching the news because it’s like, okay, that’s too much. And also the narrative is controlled. We’re like, no way. But what are we doing? We’re getting news every second of the day on Instagram, on Twitter, on TikTok Every second. Yeah. Every second of the day.

And we’re addicted to it. That’s what we also have to recognize is that like I, I was listening to something about. This woman was the head of like addiction medicine in diary. Diary of a CEO. Oh, I think wheel, is it the dopamine episode? Yeah. We both listened to that and she was saying like 90, I forget the stat, like 98% of people are addicted to their cell phones.

I 

Emily: am, I’m not gonna lie. And I, and I make such an intentional effort not to, and I still am. 

Jenn: Literally, it was like me when I had an eating disorder. I’m like, okay, just don’t do it. And then all of a sudden I’m in a full on binge and I’m hating myself. Right. We do the same thing. We’re like, like deep in a scroll hole and we can’t get ourselves out of it, but we hate it ’cause we feel like 

Emily: crap.

It’s wild. I will literally like be in the bath and I’m like, get out, get out of the bath. Stop scrolling literal, and I’m like still going. And I’m like, put the phone down and get out. You’re like parenting yourself. Yeah, 

Jenn: it’s not 

Emily: working. And you’re like, it’s, 

Jenn: it’s bad. It’s horrible. Yeah. It’s hor and you feel horrible after.

And there’s a reason why, I forget the neurochemical, I always blank on the name of it, but it’s like when we have, it’s, it’s what’s called what I like to call cheap dopamine, where we’re getting that like surge. It’s, it’s like, it’s, it’s just cheap. It’s like addiction. It’s like gambling. It’s like you just can’t get enough of it.

And then I forget the neurochemical that it’s, it’s built within us that kind of like you drink a lot and then you are hung over the next day. It’s because our body is naturally trying to bring us back to homeostasis. 

Mm. 

Jenn: So you just had a binge, which is like the amount of dopamine that we release from binging on our phone is more than like cocaine and md.

It’s more than drugs. And then what’s gonna happen, we’re gonna have an equal and opposite reaction because that’s how our dopamine system is set up, is that if it’s spiked up here, then it needs to recover down here. So that’s why you feel so horrible afterwards. But what do you do? You keep coming back from more.

Right. And it’s right there. Yeah. Because we’re addicted to dopamine. Yeah. A dopamine is very addicting. And that’s also why dopamine is, is the neurochemical that’s responsible for grinding and hustling, setting bigger goals and going after it. So I think a lot of my depression was, a lot of it, well, there’s many pieces, was I was dopamine depleted.

Because think about it as an entrepreneur, you know this, like you set bigger goals, you reach them equal and opposite reaction. Right. Bigger goals. And then you become addicted to this cycle of spike and crash and spike and crash. And so we’re just recreating that on our phones. 

Yeah. 

Emily: And I’m, and then our business is on our phones and, and everything we want to create, like I know both of us enjoy being creators.

Yep. And so it’s constantly for me, how do I find. The right harmony. The right balance, yeah. Around creating without consuming. I mean, it is a constant effort and I am very far from Perfect say it, but 

same. 

Emily: I find like the best thing is just deleting the app for three days and then and resetting are gone.

Yeah, I know. I know. I think about that too. Or I’ll wait until I don’t have any important ones, but I have real drafts from when I was pregnant. 

Jenn: I’m like, you’re not using those. Oh, you know what I mean? Like why do I hold onto ’em? Yeah, no, it’s true. Deleting the app, do you have specific days that you do it or you just, I liked 

Emily: in the weekends, like if I can delete and go completely off, I just did it last week in social media, then I find it’s like a reset.

It feels good. It feels amazing, and then I’ll come back and it’s like a reset. I’m not as bad on Monday. Yep. With the consumption and it will kind of build throughout the week. For me, it’s also, it’s for sure a numbing thing, like course it’s the end of the day I am maxed. Like Yeah. Mentally, physically.

Yeah, you have three kids. I don’t watch tv, so I’ll just scroll. It’s like the one thing I don’t have to think about. I honestly think watching TV’s better, I agree with you. You know what I mean? Like, because I’m the same way. I’m like, I don’t watch tv and then I’m like, 

Jenn: maybe 

Emily: I should. I agree. Watching a show with my husband would be better than scrolling Instagram and all that comes from the comparison and like it is so subconscious of like comparing yourself to someone else and just all of that.

Yeah, I agree. TV’s probably better. I started watching like Theo V comedy on my phone because I was like, okay, I don’t have to like consume this and actually pay attention to everything they’re saying, which is what I want at that time of day. True. And it’s funny. Yeah. So, and sometimes instead of social media, I’ll just watch a comedy 

Jenn: episode.

Great. That’s really good. Honestly, I think like there’s so much focus on morning routines, right? Like the millionaire morning routine and get up and do this and, and I’ve like dialed my morning routine right now ’cause so I’ve, I’ve created my morning routine to actually be like dopamine, not dopamine rich, but like dopamine balancing if you will, like my morning routine.

So good. My number one focus and my morning routine is to have a healthy dopamine level because how we get the dopamine in the morning, our body craves that throughout the day. So we’ve all heard people being like, don’t scroll first thing in the morning for real. Try not to, right? Like, I, I, and for, I, I don’t know if you’re the same way, like SelfControl goes out the window, it’s like truly like I used to have a binge eating disorder.

It’s, I feel the same way with my phone right now, actually the last like four years if I’m being honest. And. In the morning, if you’re rolling over and grabbing your phone, biggest spike in dopamine, your brain craves that all day. So you’re gonna find yourself on your phone all throughout the day. But the problem is, is that you’re never gonna get that big of a surge again.

’cause it’s like a drug. You surge and then it, you can’t get that big of a surge. So your brain is trying to get that feeling again and it can’t get it back until the next morning. So, so in the morning, I literally don’t sleep with my phone in my bedroom. I don’t either. Yeah, I can’t Or I will be. Mush ball in bed, scrolling in the morning.

Or I’ll get really clever and I’m like, Hey, I’m not gonna scroll Instagram, but like I’m on Pinterest, like, or I’m on the Reddit, Reddi Reddit. 

Emily: I’ll go into like 

Jenn: CrossFit Reddit too. Like just read all trying to like drama Reddit. Yeah. It’s like, ’cause I don’t have drama in my life. I’m like, give it to me on the internet and I don’t care about celebrities, you know?

So I’m like, oh yeah. So yeah, I’ll do that. Like, right. Like I think about too, like my parents growing up, they would just read the newspaper right? Here I am like, fuck. Yeah. So I have a really rich dopamine, like I, I, I guess you could say like a a really healthy dopamine level in the morning, but no one talks about what to do at night.

Right. It’s like so focused on the morning routine, get up, journal, red, light, ice, whatever it is. But it’s like, I think the nighttime is actually equally as important that we should be talking about and creating routines around. Yeah. True. Because that can like wash it all out from the day and, well, 

Emily: the night is when it’s so easy to numb because you’re so tired from the day and like, we’re so, we’re all just so mentally.

Attacks like the noise. Yeah. So by the end of the day, it’s like, 

Jenn: yeah. And if it’s not your phone, then like wine mommy culture. Right. You could get a drink or binging Netflix or turning to food. Like that’s where I was for most of my life. Like it was too much. So I would just go eat and then I would have a glass of wine.

Right. So like we’re do, everyone’s probably doing something at night that you’re drifting and you’re getting unconscious. That’s not adding to life at all. Yeah. So tell me about your morning routine. I know people will love to know that. Oh, well. So I have a five month old as you know, and we co-sleep, so I think that that’s important to know because mm-hmm.

Everyone’s got a different, like you might be up with your alarm with your kids, right. And so I’m up with my daughter. I think the importance of that. And so I’m up with my daughter. I have water next to my bed, so I make sure that I drink it. Am I like a drink? A hundred ounces? No. Do I try? Yes. Do I do it?

No. But that’s what happens. And then with her, I usually feed her and then I get her up and put her in her little bassinet to play. And I make my bed immediately. Like before I leave the room, I make my bed. And the reason why is because that is really good for dopamine to-do lists. Checking that off.

Yeah. That’s a surgeon in dopamine. And so when I do something, first thing in the morning, that makes my house look good and then makes me feel good, like solid. So I’ll make my bed and like I do the whole thing, like the blanket. I tuck the edges. Like I make it look good. And the reason why I wanna say that my daughter’s with me because.

A lot of people will use that as an excuse, right? Like, well, I’ve got my kids up, or whatever it is. It’s like, it literally takes three minutes to make the bed. And what it does to your brain is phenomenal. So I make my bed, I go in the bathroom, you know, we all have do things in the morning with my bathroom, and then I bring, you know, have my daughter with me, and then I go out into the living room and the kitchen put her down.

So morning’s, great time for her to play. And then I go get ice. And I do something with ice. I have like an ice roller, like an actual ice, not like the roller things. ’cause those things to me are intense enough. Or I just dump my, i my face in a whole entire bowl of ice. And the reason why is because cold therapy, I would, I would do my plunge, but it’s, I don’t wanna like get in a banging suit mm-hmm.

In my plunge, first thing in the morning. But cold therapy actually increases your dopamine up to 250%. It’s gonna be a similar spike as you’re getting on your phone. Mm-hmm. However, it’s proven in studies that that dopamine surge stays for hours afterwards. So I find that when I do those two things, they’re so little, right, like two little things together.

They take me less than five minutes. It gives me a nice little surge in dopamine, but it actually lasts throughout the morning where I’m and dopamine’s responsible for your motivation and like going after, like, pursuing something and like the pleasure in pursuing something. And so I find that when I do that, I have that excitement to work and to like be productive and not go too high on the dopamine, like activities like scrolling and, and trying to set a big goal and doing it.

But it’s just like a nice, even like motivation all throughout the day. And then that’s literally it. That’s all that I do. It’s so simple. It’s. So simple. And that’s what annoys me with people’s morning routines. It’s like I was listening to a wellness podcast, I will not say the name. And that these girls were talking about their morning routine and it was 45 minutes and I’m driving just curious about it.

And I, I’m like 40 minutes in and I’m like, you’re still talking like your morning routine. It’s this complicated. Yeah. They had like acronyms for everything and it was like, yeah. And then I drink this drink and then I do this and then I journal and then I do 20 minutes of red light and then I do 20 minutes of stretching.

I’m like, number one, you’re not moms, which is fine. We’re all different. But number two, like you just went till noon. Yeah, like these morning wellness routines, like it’s unwell. Like we’re not, this isn’t really working. So I like to do things that are simple, that are quick and that are actually rooted in science.

To have lasting benefit. And the bonus with the ice too, is it’s really good for your face. 

Emily: Yeah. I’ve seen your, your stories doing that. I’m gonna do that. I have a cold plunge, but I’m saying it’s hard for me to get up at first thing and go out there and do it. Like honestly, I’m like, no, 

Jenn: because then you got a short walk to and like, you know, like, yeah, no, if it’s 90 degrees in the morning, maybe that’s gonna be a nice profession, but No, but I just do the ice on my face.

Emily: Yeah. Mm-hmm. That’s awesome. And then, so what about the evening? Do you have an evening No. Routine? What would you do? Like, if you’re saying, okay, I think that’s what, what’s missing? I know you do red lights a lot, your daughter I do lights. Yeah. Yep, yep. I do 

Jenn: red light. I usually do red light sometime throughout the day.

It’s not like I have to do in the morning. ’cause I have my daughter, I’m not gonna sit in front of the red light with her. Right. So usually when she’s at one of her first naps, I’ll do a red light just because I’m trying to do it for my acne, for my skin. I, I, I’m the type of person that I like to learn the science of it, and then I experiment.

Mm. And I’ll show the experimentation, but I’m not gonna be like day four and be like, Hey. Here’s my red light code. Like I really wanna see if it actually works. So I’ve been doing this in the morning for 15 months to really see like, does it legit work or is it just, you know? 

Emily: Yeah. And it’s had a lot of impact, not just on the dopamine and like feeling for you, but your skin and Oh my gosh.

Yeah. Yeah. 

Jenn: I’ve noticed way less stress, way less anxiety. ’cause the cold too, it activates your vagus nerve. And we talk a lot about the vagus nerve, but the reason why it’s so popular and why it’s so important is it’s the only nerve of the brain that doesn’t go up. It goes, also goes down. 

Mm. 

Jenn: So it connects the brain, the brainstem, all the way through.

It goes through your heart, it goes through your lungs, and it goes to your gut. And so if your vagus nerve is off, which if you have a high stressful life, which many entrepreneurs do, it is doing cold therapy actually strengthens the vagus nerve. Mm. So what that does is it allows you to have a stronger resiliency against stress and allows your body to be able to handle and be okay with more stress.

You know, we, we say that stress, you know, like the, our culture, like demonizes, stress, good luck trying to get rid of it. And stress is a really good thing when we can recover. You know this, you’re a CrossFitter, you are intentionally putting yourself in very stressful environments twice a day. And because you recover from your stress, you’re seeing the results, you’re getting stronger, you’re looking stronger, you’re, you know, you’re getting everything that you wanna get out of it, but if you didn’t recover from it, what would happen?

You’re screwed. Right, right. So it’s not a bad thing, it’s just a recovery from it. Yeah. So hold therapy actually helps our recovery because it strengthens that vagus nerve. Mm-hmm. So it’s really important. But what would I do at night? Get off your phone. That’s my answer. I would put my phone. Yeah. What do I do in the morning?

I don’t have my phone around. I mean, yeah, get off the phone is 

Emily: the biggest 

Jenn: thing. Yeah. I honestly would start to uti like in the morning, I utilize my environment. Right? Like I, I have things set up in a way, like I, I’m not touching my phone. I’m not going on it. So I would do the same thing at night. I would put it in my bathroom.

That’s where I keep it. Yeah. 

Emily: I have to literally put it out of sight. Yeah. Like I’ve, even if I, I do sleep in it outta the room. I’ve had that forever. But if I plug it in on my kitchen where I walk past it Yeah. In the morning. Yep. I’ll grab it. Or just, oh, I wonder if anyone texted me last night. You know, just, lemme just, just wonder what, nothing’s going on.

Nothing’s happening. Yeah. You know, and all of a sudden you’re now on Instagram checking your dms. So true. Yeah. And then you’re like, why am I here? And then you’d put it down and you’re like, why the fuck 

Jenn: did I do that? Literally? And then it was how 45 minutes went by. I have no idea. Yeah. It’s insane. Yeah.

I would probably keep it out, keep it in my bathroom. And what like, it’s like, what do I love to do? What’s the intention at night? Right. So my intention in the morning is for my neurochemicals to be in a really good place that I feel good, I feel calm, I feel regulated, and I have like a healthy surge of excitement for life.

Like that’s what I want for my morning routine. Years ago, I wanted to like journal and connect spiritually and like have, and I don’t want that anymore. Like, it’s not my season of life. So I guess my question would be what’s our, what’s my in intent? Like what’s your intention at night? Like, what would you want your night to be?

I think it just a 

Emily: what? So lemme talk about what I struggle with, which is being present because after a full day of work right. And that level of going, I cannot get out of it. Like, right. So you would need to wind down. Yeah. So then I use my phone. I’m like, okay, of course, well now I don’t have to do so I’ll still, but I’m still like Right.

This fast-paced noise. Yep. Yeah. So wind down and, and try and be present and relaxed. Yeah. Bed. ’cause you don’t wanna be bed with chaos. Right. Okay. Anything else you wanna do? No, I think I wanna do nothing. 

Jenn: Like 

Emily: I don’t need a plan tomorrow or like good, you know, do anything. What would you need tomorrow planned in order to do that?

I usually plan tomorrow at the end of my work day and that does help a lot. So I will write my priorities for the next day to finish out my work day. And it helps me so much feel like, okay, I’m completed. This is going to tomorrow. Yep. And now I can end the day. So I do that now every day. 

Jenn: I did that for years.

It 

Emily: helps so much and 

Jenn: I’m literally like, you’re helping me remember how much that helped with my life. 

Emily: Yeah. It helps and close out the day thinking about, because you also need a little transition I find from work to home. And I’m constantly like making sure I, for me, my workout has actually become that.

So I will finish my work day, do my completion of what I’m doing tomorrow, and then I’ll go work out. Then they’ll go home. And that it has helped me so much. I love 

Jenn: that. Yeah. ’cause you’re right. When I was a teacher, the drive home was how I turned off work. Yeah. Right. But we don’t have that When you work from, when you work from home or you’re an entrepreneur, you don’t have that.

You just have, you walk into a different room. Right. And then you still have your phone. And so Yes. It’s still with you. Yes. And you, you still have your brain. Mm-hmm. Which you can’t shut off, right? Mm-hmm. So let’s do this. Let’s make a perfect nighttime routine. Okay. Anyone who’s doing this. So first thing would be to complete your workday in some way, shape, or form.

So you, I I, I’m gonna take your way, which is the list. 

Emily: Yeah. For the next day. 

Jenn: Tomorrow’s priority list. Yep. And what I used to do, I used to just like keep it on my desk, that when I walked into my desk the next day, it was right there. I didn’t have to think about it. Yep. I have one notebook that’s like only my todo list.

Sweet. So complete the workday. Then I think it’s important to then transition into Yeah. You home. And 

Emily: some great ways to do that is like workout. You could cold plunge, you could change your clothes yourself out, change your clothes as it turned into, yeah. My friend Michelle talks about like, literally like doing something like I closed the door, office door and I, you know, like.

D it or you know, something that’s like, I am now not working. I know people who like put on a bracelet or Yep. Just something that signals to your body. Like I am now transitioning into family time. 

Jenn: You know what you also could do, and this is extreme, you have to really not have any reels. Drafts, but you could literally, before you walk out of the office, I say you like all of us, not just, you know, not like you guys.

Try this and let me know. Like we could delete the apps at night. Yeah. So it’s like, okay, made my to-do list, delete the apps and then like, ’cause you think about it, yes, it’s our phone, but it’s the apps that are on the phone. 

Emily: Oh, totally. You know, and I’ve, I’ve got my apps. I don’t have email on my phone.

Same. I Slack. Yep. The only thing I have is Voxer and then it’s the social media and Voxer iss not a problem. Like it’s social media for sure. Have you heard of that device? A brick? No. It’s an actual physical, like square cube and you can scan your phone into it and it will lock all of the apps that you’ve programmed for the different modes.

Oh wow. And in order to unlock it, you have to actually scan your phone. Oh. So that has worked for me because all the phone rules, I don’t, I just override it with the passcode. Oh my God. See, you know, like it doesn’t work. It’s like you, your limit doesn’t, you’re like, ignore for today, but this, you leave the device like the brick and then your phone’s locked.

So in order to unlock it, you have to actually be like, I’m gonna go to the brick. You know? And so it’s just like a little brick extra step. I don’t like, I’ll leave it at home. Oh, this is funny. So I’ve left it at home and then I accidentally locked myself out my car app. Okay. And it was my key. So I had to call my nanny and I was like, I’m locked outta my car.

Can you start it for me? Oh my God. On your app. That’s great. So don’t do that. Okay. 

Jenn: Don’t do that. No worries. 

Emily: I mean, it is a little extra of a step. The next would be deleting the app for sure. But if you ’cause deleting the app, you gotta go through the whole process of downloading it. Right. Which is a.

Obstacle for yourself. 

Jenn: For sure. Especially if you, the log backing, you’re like, forgot password. Like, yeah. Okay. So there has to be something that breaks you, that, that transitions you back. Right. And this is, I’m, this is a cool conversation because what we could do, what I could do is tell everyone what my morning routine is, but like I really love, and I’m sure you do as well, like helping educate and then being like, well what would that be for you?

Right, for you? It’s the brick for me. I might hate the brick, I might wanna just delete the app for somebody. It might be to just have two phones. I was gonna say, that’s another, another option. Or work leave or turn it off. Right. Or like leave it in their office. You know, for me, I don’t like doing that because like taking pictures of my daughter and like FaceTiming my parents at night, you know, to like have that connection.

So like, so we need a, we need a closing of the workday, then we need a transition and then we need an intention. Like your intention is like, I wanna just be present without anything else and actually be present and relaxed for me. Yeah. I wanna be present. I think I wanna be more present with my husband too.

That’s a big thing at night where we both can kind of get in that. 

Emily: And it’s hard when you’ve got kids’ bedtime and so you’re consumed by that. Sure. And then you’re like, all right, I’ll just go to bed. Yeah. Once the kid’s in bed, at least that’s what I do. So 

Jenn: Yeah. I honestly should just go to bed at nine 30.

Yeah. But I can go to bed at midnight. I do go to bed at midnight, but I would like it for me at night. I don’t read or journal in the morning or during the day. I’m like, I’m like full on mom or work mode. So that’s what I would do at night. I would put my daughter to bed and then I would not have my phone and I wanna like learn or I wanna connect.

So I probably would have a little bit of time where I’m connecting with my husband and I’m just present with him without the distraction. And then he, he literally goes, could go to bed at nine o’clock. I would go to bed at like 10 30 and then use that hour and a half where I’m in bed, like journaling and reading.

Mm. Like that would be my most ideal night. Yeah. Where I would feel really good, relaxed. I wouldn’t be distracted. I wouldn’t be consumed, I wouldn’t be like. Feeling disgusting when I go to bed because I just wasted my brain power. Like that would be my, I think my ideal. 

Emily: Let’s do it. Okay. Well what would yours do?

Yeah, I think mine would be, end my workday. Go work out. Either delete the apps or put my phone in airplane mode for a while. Yeah. Which I’ve done. ’cause then I can still take photos. And then put the kids to bed. And my problem is when I lay with my 5-year-old, ’cause I still lay with him every night until he falls asleep after I do like this silly puppet show thing with them, I go on my phone ’cause I’m laying there in the dark.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I need something to do then. And I’ve tried a bunch of things, but. ’cause it can’t be learning. My brain’s done. Yeah. I can’t learn at that time of day. So I think it’s like either listen to like a fiction book or the comedy and just listen and not be on my phone. Yeah. I’ve tried the discipline of like lay in the dark and do nothing and I just like, I can’t do it.

I can’t. No, you’re like this asleep. I mean, I’ll fall asleep 35 seconds. I’m done. And I mean, it’s like a good 30 minutes of laying with him until he falls asleep. Yeah. So listen to either fiction book or comedy. I love that. I let comedy comedy’s just great to laugh at the end of the night. Then go have some time connect with my husband.

Right. And then probably go to bed. Yeah. Yeah. Drink my magnesium or nighttime tea or something. For sure. I like that. That’s another 

Jenn: thing, like, that’s an environmental thing. Like, just like how coffee in a mug wakes up in the morning. Like, is there, is there something that you can take or drink that calms you down at night?

Night? Yeah. Like a hot tea for me. That’s, yeah. And magnesium. Good. Lavender. Huge. Yeah. Everyone’s deficient in magnesium. Yeah. And it’s so important to have. 

Emily: Yeah. Okay. And I need to do my face. I like to do like wash my face and face care. And sometimes I’ll even be like, ah, too tired to do that. But I can be on my phone, but before, but I can sit on my phone and numb out.

Jenn: I mean, it’s real, you know? And nobody likes to talk about it. ’cause it’s like, we don’t wanna, what is it? We’re like, we’re powerless to this device, you know? Nobody wants to talk about it, but everyone’s experiencing it. 

Emily: Everyone, if you say you’re 

Jenn: not like, let me walk behind 

Emily: you for a day. You are. 

Jenn: Yeah.

Everyone I would Yeah. Teach us your ways that Yeah. You know, like it’s, it’s, it’s a thing that everyone struggles with. So I think, yeah, like having that intention and then what do I need to do in order for that to happen? And then utilizing our environment, like we both said, we would have to do something on our phones.

Shut it down, airplane mode, delete the app. Brick it, the brick. Yeah. Right. Like, like we have to, you physically leave your house. And when you were talking, I was like, wait, I would actually also go for a walk after dinner. Yeah. That’s a great, right. Like I, I love walking with our dogs and just a family walk after dinner and we just haven’t done that with my daughter.

We did it pregnant, but not with my daughter. But it’s like, if we physically need to do something like utilize our environment. Yeah. ’cause you are not stronger than your environment. Nobody is. If you’re trying to lose weight and then you, you have sugar and cookies and alcohol around, you’re going, especially if your spouse is doing it, you’re inevitably gonna not reach your goal.

You’re not gonna, you’re not gonna be able to sustain it because it’s all around you. Like we have to get really skilled at utilizing and setting up our environments. To support us 

Emily: in the goals that we have. So true. So I think it’s important everyone realizes don’t copy one of our, like we just came up with different routines for sure.

I have three kids, different ages. You’ve got one, like it’s gonna be different, but it’s like, what’s your intention? Yep. And then what’s the environment? Yep. That could bring that intention to reality. And you have to constantly remind yourself of this. Like, I will do this almost every week as I go into the week of like, 

Jenn: for sure.

Emily: What’s my intention? Like what part of my day am I, I’ve maybe fallen off on, on habits. Yeah. Like for me, like my stillness practice is really important, but I will get busy and then all of a sudden it’s been four days and I haven’t meditated and I haven’t done it. And it’s like, for sure, okay. This week, this is my number one intention, which means it comes before my CrossFit workouts.

Like it comes before my important meetings. Right. If I’m pitching, meeting 20 minutes, like it’s a choice of priorities constantly. My, I feel like, yeah. Trying to balance all the areas of your life is constantly like a priority choice completely. And a lot of times we have to choose, this is gonna come before work.

Yep. 

Emily: Otherwise, our life just tells us what’s priority Completely. And the demands. 

Jenn: Yeah. If you don’t consciously choose your, your unconscious is just going to, you’re gonna unconsciously go back to default. And default is the loudest, strongest program. Right. So if, if any of our loudest and strongest program is to disassociate, which you don’t need a phone to disassociate, it can literally be, like we said earlier, like, here I am, but I’m not really here.

Right. Yeah. Which again, common amongst our generation. If you grew up compartmentalizing emotions or numbing emotions, that is disassociating. Right? Like, so that same core disassociation tactic is now just us as adults. It’s the same exact thing. And so that’s the loudest, strongest program. Yeah. So if you are not conscious and intentional in setting up the environment and like, okay, I’ve got this, then that program is gonna come up every single time.

Yeah. It’s like trying to override the GPS when the, when the directions are already in there, it’s, you can turn left, but it’s gonna still rerouting and take you there, you know? So we have to become stronger than our programs, and it has to be enticing enough, like we said earlier, to become stronger than those programs.

Emily: Yeah. And consistency is, is everything with it. 

Jenn: Like, that’s what happens. Then we build new programs. Mm-hmm. But it does take time. Takes time. You know, it’s funny, I, I read a book and I was like actually pissed off because it’s like the, you know, it’s like everyone says, like it takes 21 days to build a ha habit.

That’s actually a lie. It takes anywhere from 18 to 256 days to build. Wow. Where that came from. No clue. Like the book’s, like, I don’t know where this came from, but science has proven that it can take up to 256 days to form a habit because you know, how many days in a row have you done your syllabus practice?

Probably over 18. And you’re like, or 21. It can fall off of it in next few days. 

Yeah, 

Jenn: yeah. So it’s like how long does it take for each person to override their default? That’s gonna, that’s gonna take time. Like if I think about my eating disorder, like that was a default pattern rooted in trauma, rooted in compartmentalizing, rooted in disassociation.

It didn’t just take me 21 days, it took me months and now there’s no way that I could ever binge or with like the alcohol analogy earlier, there’s no way I could drink like that. I’m at one and a half margarita, actually probably now after pregnancy. I’m probably at half a margarita right now and like, I’m done.

You know, like I can’t do that. I can’t because I’ve overridden the programs and I’ve created new programs that have healthy relationship with food, alcohol, and a healthy relationship with myself. It didn’t just take 21 days. It took me a long time to override those programs. So like, we can do it. It’s just gonna take time to override it, but don’t have unrealistic expectations that it’s gonna be three weeks, then you’re gonna be a new person.

It’s gonna probably take longer. The longer, my guess is that the stronger the program, the longer it will take. 

Mm. 

Jenn: But eventually, you won’t need the deter, the determination and the discipline and the willpower. It will just become habitual 

Emily: because you’ll enjoy, like I’ve gotten to where now the, the routine, the habit is actually what I want versus the other way around.

Yeah. I think our phones are the exception. They’re so powerful that you have to constantly be aware of that. Yeah. But 

Jenn: you just watch social dilemma. Yeah. You know, it’s an older Netflix documentary now, but they create these things to do this. Oh yeah. So I think a lot of people, like, we don’t wanna talk about it ’cause it’s like, it’s a weakness.

Like this little device has more power, but like truly they create them just like TikTok, just like Instagram. It’s created. For our dopamine systems, it’s created for us to be addicted to it. So like we have to become stronger than that, than that creation. Yeah. And we can I fully believe that we can. I 

Emily: do 

Jenn: too.

Emily: And I believe that you can have a relationship with creating and having a business. Yep. On social media and not consuming, over consuming for sure. I think it’s possible. I think taking breaks is huge. Yeah. Like last year I actually had my team lock me out. My, I remember, yeah. Social media for two full months.

Yeah. And I was off. I remember that. I think we were getting coffee there. Yeah. And then you’re the one who told me to unfollow, like, you told me how you unfollowed everybody for a period of time. Oh yeah. So I went through and got my followers down to like just people I actually know. Yeah. And or really like genuinely enjoy their content completely.

’cause you just kind of like start, you all of a sudden have a thousand people that you follow and you’re like, I don’t even know 700 of these you’re that you’re really not adding to my life. 

Jenn: Yeah. That’s a difficult thing. People got people. We’re upset about that. I received a lot of messages from people I actually still do wondering why I don’t 

Emily: follow them.

Isn’t that funny how we take that as it’s us and you must not like me because you unfollowed me. Which, because I’ve actually had that thought about people who have done that to me. Yes. And you’re like, why don’t you follow me anymore? You 

Jenn: must not like, like Yeah, but this is how deep the I need to belong.

Yeah. And somewhere along the way we associate it as a society, a follow with, I like you and I wanna be your friend and you belong in my life. We’ve literally associated that together. Mm. So when somebody unfollows you, or they only follow 200 people or zero people it’s a personal attack of like, well, you must not like me.

I literally had a past client and it’s, it’s like on a comment on my, like, this is a, a public comment. I’m not gonna name a name for here, but she literally got upset because she was a one-on-one client of mine. And then I. I unfollowed her and she got upset and she literally told me that I gaslit her because I acted like I loved her.

And then I didn’t even follow her anymore. And I said to her, I didn’t follow anyone for six months. And I’m very cautious with who I follow because of my own mental health battle. Everything I said earlier, that’s when I started unfollowing everyone. ’cause I was in a literal mental health battle, like chaos, survival mode therapy two times a week.

Like, are you kidding? Like I needed to reset my dopamine myself like, and it was painful to follow anyone in the coaching industry because what had happened with my previous mentor, like it was painful to see my clients. It was my past clients. It was painful to see peers who were launching and make like that was a painful thing.

Here I am undoing my identity. And it was, it hurt. It was so hard and triggering to see people making money and see people doing all of these things that I once did. So I unfollowed everyone and she made it personal. And probably held onto that. I mean, this was two years ago. Held onto it that entire time and made it about her and I explained it and she’s like, well, we just have different perspectives.

’cause I would never unfollow a client, a past client. I’m like, okay, well that’s you. Wow. 

Emily: Yeah. That’s you 

Jenn: and this is me. 

Emily: Yeah. 

Jenn: You know, but we, we do that. We take it so personal of like, well, why doesn’t she follow me? 

Emily: Right. 

Jenn: And it’s like that you don’t owe anyone a follow. Like, I literally don’t even follow half my family right now, 

Emily: or my friends.

I actually don’t follow asleep with friends. Yeah. There’s some friends that I don’t follow too that, and sometimes it’s like a season, it’s like literally I’m getting triggered if I’m getting triggered by someone’s content in a way that’s making me judge myself, feel bad about myself 

Jenn: Completely. 

Emily: No. Like, that’s not healthy and it should be 

Jenn: okay.

Yeah. Like we should be so secure within ourselves that it’s like, Hey, you don’t follow me right now. I mean, I, I don’t know if you do because I don’t check. Right. I do follow you. I follow you too. But like if you didn’t and then I just saw like Emily fault, or I notice that you didn’t fol, which. How do you notice you go look, right?

So like that’s even an interesting pattern that we all have. Right? But if I noticed it, like I wouldn’t take it personal and if I did take it personal, I would have the self-awareness and the, and the self-love I should say, to message you and be like, Hey girl, is anything, if everything okay? Exactly. Like one of my friends, she’s a close friend of mine, unfollowed me and I noticed this was like a year and a half ago, and I messaged her, I’m like, babe, did I do something to upset you?

And she’s like, what are you talking about? I’m like, you unfollowed me. And she’s like, oh my God. I had my assistant just do a massive unfollow and I, I didn’t even know. And she followed me back and I was like, I just wanted to make sure that everything was good. I. Now, I could have sat with that and ruminated and be like, oh my God, she’s mad at me.

Or I said something, or whatever. Right. A story. But that’s a pattern of my teenage and twenties, and I’m not gonna continue that pattern. If I notice it, then I’m gonna say something. But we don’t do that because we’ve been conditioned to hide behind a keyboard and hide behind a phone, and then to create our own stories.

Mm-hmm. But if we were all a little bit more self-led and a little bit more okay with these hard emotions to feel, then we would just have it like, Hey, I noticed that we’re not following, you’re not following me anymore. It’s something off. And being okay with having a difficult conversation like that, you know?

’cause had that client of mine had that conversation two years ago than that would be completely different, you know? Right. And if somebody can’t respect that I had to do that for my own journey, then that’s not my, that’s not my problem. Right. It’s not about you. Yeah, absolutely. And I pray that somebody would do that for themselves, for their own wellbeing and happiness.

Mm-hmm. 

Emily: But absolutely we don’t. Yeah. Well, before we wrap up, I wanted to talk about becoming a mom. Ooh. And hear a little bit. I know you have your podcast and you’ve done some really great episodes about that. Yeah. So obviously anyone listening can jump over there and tune into your podcast. But yeah, let’s share a little of that journey for you and yeah.

How it’s been in the last five months. Wild. 

Jenn: Yeah. I can’t believe it’s only been five months. ’cause it feels like a decade, but then it feels like five seconds. Isn’t it so fun? Yeah. Time. Weird time. If, if you really think it’s real. Have a kid. Yeah. Once you have kids. 

Emily: I was just saying this of like, yeah, it’s so fast.

And then yet it feels like a year ago that a month ago our trip or whatever. Yeah. Literally. Yeah. Yeah. It’s been so cool. 

Jenn: You know, I had a lot of resistance to motherhood. I don’t know how much you and I talked about that, but I had a lot of resistance being a high achieving woman. You know, in, in the society that we live in, we really are fed.

A story that you can’t do it all. You know, you can’t be a really good mom and be successful and do work that you love. Like we’re fed sacrifice. And I watched my mom sacrifice a lot as a single mom raising us. And it was really tough, you know? And so I had a lot of stories that motherhood was gonna be hard.

And I’m not saying that it’s not right, it’s, it is. But that it was gonna be just not enjoyable, I should say, instead of heart, I should say that, that it wasn’t gonna be enjoyable. And so there was a lot of resistance in my pregnancy and I’m okay admitting that. Like I don’t think, the more that I talk about that, the more that I hear women be like, oh my God, me too.

Or I don’t know if I wanna be pregnant and you’re showing me that it’s okay too, you know, that I can do it all. So I had a lot of resistance my first trimester. There was a lot of grief. So even after you got pregnant, you still had the resistance? Yeah. Yeah. I was really upset. You know, there was a lot of, a lot of anger. Like we, I wanna build a business back up before I have a baby. Mm-hmm. You know, I wanna be making a lot of money again before I become a mom. And I just had to accept that that wasn’t my path and it took me about half a pregnancy 

Emily: Yeah. To 

Jenn: do that. 

Emily: I can relate so much Yeah. As getting pregnant young.

Oh. That was my experience. And I am fortunate to get pregnant very easily, so all three of my kids You are, were not planned. Tell me that. And I think like, the first one I had that, but I think I had it more the second and the third because I was actually like, no, I just had a baby. Mm. And I don’t wanna do this again.

Like, I don’t want to breast, I had, you know, I breastfed all my kids like two years co-slept. Like really just gave myself up for a while for them. And so I can relate a lot to that anger. Yeah. Wow. 

Jenn: Yeah. It’s interesting, right? Like I would’ve never known that. Yeah, because you here you are happy with three epic.

Yeah. Beautiful children, you know? So I think that, I think it’s a common thing what I’m learning. The more that I share it, the more common that it’s Yeah. Than I, than I even thought. ’cause I was terrified to even say that online. I’m like, I’m gonna get so much I, because you get people who 

Emily: are like, can’t get pregnant, who are so mad that you feel that way or, yeah.

And I, you should feel lucky that you have a baby. 

Jenn: Completely. Yeah. And I had to go through that in my pregnancy because I have a couple friends that have been trying to conceive for a long time and telling them that I was pregnant and them darn well, knowing that I wasn’t trying to be pregnant. I wasn’t trying to get pregnant and then saying, I’m holding this and I’m also holding the fact that you wanna be here.

You know, and it was, it was difficult conversations, but the most beautiful, like my friendships are so deep now, but deeper I should say. But that was really hard where I’m like, women are, are trying to do this year after year over year. And here I am angry that I’m here. And then I also was like, great, well what am I, how am I messing up this baby?

Because I’m like, I don’t, I don’t, I’m not ready for this, you know? And so there’s a lot of that, you know, what you know about healing and about imprinting and the womb and all these things. And so instead of fighting it and gripping, I just let it be, you know, I let myself be angry. I let myself grieve. I let myself be honest with my husband and, you know, the second, third trimester started to come out of it.

I’m like, wait a second, I think I can do this. And then, you know, when she was born I was like, okay, we’re here, you know, and I didn’t get the wave. I’m so glad I read the books, right? Like some of the books, because I read a couple books, spiritual Midwifery, and oh my gosh, what’s the other one I ina Ma.

Oh, really? Yeah. And the, the, or there was another one. What? It’s not important, but. I heard a couple stories where the women were like, I didn’t fall in love with the baby right away. And that’s normal because everyone tells you when this baby’s born, that you get this, your heart expands a million times and you just can’t ever imagine anything else.

And here I am in my bed at home being like, okay, like I did it. Like, holy crap. And like, of course I love this child of mine, but like, here I am, like, where’s the expansion? But I, I’m so grateful that, that I learned that was normal. ’cause if I didn’t hear that that was normal, I think I would’ve spiraled into depression.

But I was like, it’s okay. I will fall in love with her. I love her, but I will fall in love with her more and more and more over time. I remember there was one day, she’s probably like a month, my mom was here probably about three weeks to a month. Old and I was listening to a song and I was just singing the song to her and all of a sudden my heart like exploded and I started blowing my eyes out.

I’m like, oh my God, I love her so much. And I like, I had that moment and I’m so glad that I didn’t try to search for it or force it to happen and just let myself adapt when it was time. And I mean, you met her like now, like, I love being a mom. I’m only five months in, so I know I’ve got, you know, everyone’s like, well just wait, tell.

And I’m like, I hate it when people, I know I wanna just like hit people outside the no sloppy mug. I’m like, just let me be here. Yeah. You know, like when I was like, this newborn phase, like was easy for me. Like, dare I say it, it was easy, it was fun, it was a smooth, like, it was this, it’s been the smoothest transition into motherhood from someone who was apprehensive a year ago.

I’m like, whoa. And then, you know, I, people are like, well just wait until she gets her four month regression and just wait until she’s nine months and just wait until I’m like, I hate that I’m not waiting until I’m living here. 

Emily: Yeah. And when that happens, I will be fine if it happens. Yeah. When it 

Jenn: like.

Because my rec, my, my realization, my biggest realization of pregnancy and postpartum was screw what everyone tells me. I’m obviously gonna learn ’cause people are, you’re wise, but screw it all and let me just create whatever the hell I wanna create with this journey. And I’m so glad I gave myself that permission because there’s so much crap that we’re fed so much and becoming a mom and in pregnancy and in postpartum, there’s so much noise.

And I’m like, screw the noise. I’ll ask if I care if I wanna know. And then outside of that, let me, let me go on this journey myself. And I’m loving that. Like it’s, it’s freeing. It’s it exhilarating. Like it’s fun. I love it. I love, I love being a mom. It’s the coolest thing. And I’ve never, in my life, I didn’t want kids when I first met my husband, so I never thought I’d be here to be like, oh my God, I love it.

But it’s, it’s the coolest thing. And she just teaches me. I asked my husband the other day, I’m like, what is she teaching you? What are the biggest things she’s teaching you right now? And he had his answers and you know, he’s like, well, what about you? And I was like, she’s teaching me how light. Life can be, you know, I’ve, I’ve, I realized how heavy my childhood was, how heavy, you know, my, a lot of my life has been, it’s been on the out.

It’s beautiful. Like I’ve lived a great life, but there’s a lot of kind of like in the background, just this heaviness of having to, of the pressure of all the thing. And I’m like, you know, my, she’s teaching us, she’s teaching me just how light life can be and that it can be safe in the lightness. And it’s a fricking, it’s a ball.

I just, she’s, she’s so cool. Yeah. You met her. She, she 

Emily: cool. She’s so cool. I mean, she was pretty mushy when you still met her. You gotta meet her again. I gotta meet her again. I haven’t seen her in a, in a few months. Yeah. She was a mush ball. Yeah. Little be better. I mean, she slept the whole time, so, yeah.

If that’s how mushy she was. Yeah. And you’ve just, I mean, from what I have seen and hung out with you, you’ve just, it’s just been so beautiful of like. Your journey to get here gave you those tools to be able to be present and surrender. ’cause, birth and motherhood is, you wanna learn to surrender. Like you will not have a choice.

You can cannot control the surrender you wanna death. Yeah. So deliver your child in your 

Jenn: bedroom. 

Emily: Yes. Like you have no choice but to surrender. And the only way is through in those scenarios. But I think all that, that journey that you went on, like made that so much more peaceful for you. Yeah. Versus the fight then to surrender because that, that was kind of more mine is like, okay, now I’m gonna fight the surrender because I, I have a choice to surrender because I’ve got kids.

Yeah. And that was my path and that was what I was supposed to do. And my kids did teach me a lot around that. But it’s, it’s cool to watch the work that you did to get up to where you are now. And as always, like she came at exactly the time that she was supposed to and it’s like, it So 

Jenn: beautiful. Thank you.

Yeah, thank you. That was the other lesson is like, there is a, a plan 

Emily: that’s not yours. Yeah. That’s kind of where I got when I, I had the anger with my kids, like pregnant with them. Then I’m like, who am I to say what the plan is? That’s exactly 

Jenn: it. Which is really terrifying to somebody who always needs to plan and always needs to know what to do and always right.

Like, that’s, that’s terrifying. That was so much of my pregnancy where I was like, no, no, no, no, no. I wanted be in charge of the plan. I wanted to know, like I, I had a vision like dream and I was like, this is, I’m gonna know when I’m gonna wanna get pregnant. I’m gonna know when, when I’m ready. And then I’m gonna do it.

And people hear that and they’re like, like, I’ve been with my husband for 12 years, almost 12 years. So it’s like a lot of people assume that this was a very planned thing, you know? I’m like, no, this was a big old surprise for me. You know? I had a feeling it was coming in the next couple years, but like, yeah.

You know, and then I really think about it. I’m like, if I did plan it, I probably wouldn’t, I wouldn’t, would I have really been ready? No, I don’t think you’re ever fully Yeah. Ready. I don’t think I would’ve been, which means I, you know. Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s been a, it’s been a journey in surrender and trusting that there’s a plan that’s better than mine.

And feeling safe in the surrender of like, okay, we’re gone there. And, you know, same with the business. Like, okay, the money’s gone. We’re not, I’m not making it anymore. I’m not the sole provider anymore. Like, I’m not, I don’t have this business anymore. I don’t have this lifestyle anymore. All right. It’s gone.

Show me a better plan. And it’s, it’s hard when you have the attachments to the things like, it’s hard. But that’s true. To surrender my experience is that it’s hard if you make it hard and then you start to realize like, well, there’s a whole nother like, parallel life over here that is better than I ever could have imagined.

Emily: Yeah. Because that plan is oftentimes better than anything we could have created. Always. Oh. Like, we’re so funny. Humans we’re so, like, we have the answer. It’s gonna be this time on this date. Yeah. 

Jenn: Right This way. Yep. It’s gonna be this like little, you know, here’s my perfect to-do list plan. You know, and I mean, we’ve both done it only to feel like there was something missing.

Mm-hmm. You know, and it’s like, what if that thing that’s missing is, is that, is the surrender to something that could 

Emily: be better and is usually always better for sure when you can get there. For sure. Yeah. You gotta trust it. Yeah. I got a tattooed on you, so I’m getting there. I checked that box in like a year from 

Jenn: now.

Emily: Her 

Jenn: the words trust and surrender are just like, Xed out. Like, you’re like, I didn’t care anymore. Yeah. I just think that’s dumb. 

Emily: My gosh. Oh, so good. Anything else you feel you wanna share? What a beautiful, amazing conversation. I know. I loved it. So good. So good. We went everywhere, 

Jenn: you know? Yeah, no, you know, I think it’s what I said earlier, like what we don’t heal, we pass on.

You know? And, and if you’re an entrepreneur, which I know your listeners are, we pass it on to our followers, we pass it on to our clients, like we just inevitably pass it on. And I think that there’s a lot of feeling that we can’t heal and do it at the same time. And I think we can. I, I think we can.

And I think that we need to start to normalize these conversations. Of like the realness of what people are going through. Not trying to force vulnerability, but like actually just being like, yo, this is where I’m at. You know, and dropping the, the shields and the weapons and it’s just like, this is where I am.

And it like, it’s okay to not be okay. It’s okay to break down. It’s okay to burn it down. It’s, it’s okay. You know, 

Emily: that is the journey that literally is a journey. It’s okay. And it’s about that journey. Like that’s what gets you 

Jenn: to wherever you’re going. Yep. Yeah. Stop creating negative bias around it and just fricking do it.

And like, let’s have fun on the, on the ride. 

Emily: Yeah. You know? Yeah, so good. Yeah. Where can everyone find you? I’ll put links and stuff in the show notes, but where would you like to send people? Right now I’m podcast on, I’m on Instagram, my podcast, which both are going through a rebrand, so just click on the link below.

But any content that you create is truly a gift to yours. Is it? Is it incredible the content that you create, the depths and the heart that comes through in your content? So highly recommend following and listening to her podcast. Thank you. Yeah, I appreciate it 

Jenn: so much. You always say that and it’s, it’s beautiful to receive.

So thank you. 

Emily: Yeah, thank you so much. You are welcome. Thank you.