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She fired her clients with no backup plan. In this episode, I’m joined by Renee Warren—founder, entrepreneur, and host of Into the Wild—for a raw, behind-the-scenes conversation about identity, motherhood, marriage. 

We talk about the tension of being a CEO and the mom who’s supposed to do it all. The identity shift that happens when you stop being the overachiever everyone admires and start listening to the quiet voice inside. Renee shares what changed in her business when she finally let go of the pressure, trusted herself, and created space for what truly mattered.

Key Takeaways

• The identity unraveling that happens when you walk away from a role that once defined you—and how to rebuild with clarity

• The surprising way saying no to “easy money” created more spaciousness and more aligned revenue

• How Renee rebuilt her brand around trust, intuition, and simplicity—and why it worked better than any marketing hack

Renee Warren is an award-winning entrepreneur and host of the Into the Wild podcast. She’s the founder of The Pink Skirt Project, a movement that helps ambitious women embrace their feminine energy while building wildly successful businesses

Find Renee on Instagram @renee_warren
Explore her work at www.thepinkskirtproject.com/

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READ THE EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Emily: All right. Welcome to the show. 

Renee: Yeah, well thanks for having me. I came all the way from Canada. Yeah. To be here today. I am so excited.

Emily: And I was just saying I’m excited ’cause this is like our catch up. Yeah. Like we haven’t, we’ve been caught up in a while and there’s a lot to catch up on.

Renee: Yeah. It’s exciting. I, I will say this, I was thinking about this on the drive up, how you were, I don’t know if you remember when I was kept asking you these questions about how do you record solo episodes?

Like do you just riff or do you have all these notes? I wanted to save telling you this while we were recording ’cause you were the person that inspired me to build the confidence to actually record solo.

Emily: I remember that conversation and I feel like I did a podcast or something to like help with that.

That’s amazing. Yeah. I totally remember that conversation and I was like, well, I don’t have a method. Kind of just go, you

Renee: riff. Yeah. I. I mean, part of it was just like deconstructing my own self worth, like who’s gonna wanna listen to me? And I’m at episodes like 370 now or something. The last two years have been solo episodes and interviews a week.

So kind of like what you’re doing now and my solos get the most downloads and you’re amazing at it.

Emily: Well,

Renee: thank you. Took some practice.

Emily: Yeah. But that’s amazing that you implemented and, and you’re doing it. Yeah. I to I totally remember that conversation mm-hmm. A few years ago. Yeah. So fun. Well, thank you.

All right. I thought let’s start with your story a little bit. Let’s get, let people get to know you. Yeah. And your story as an entrepreneur, wherever you feel like is most relevant to start.

Renee: Yeah. Well, okay. So when I was talking about being 17 years old, when I was 17, my mom told me to get a job. And I thought, well, entrepreneurs make a lot of money and they don’t work a lot.

So why don’t I just start there? And so I started a restaurant with my sister and that wasn’t the case. We did work a lot, but we made a lot of money. And this was back in like 1997 where we didn’t have tap and no one took debit or credit cards. It was all cash. So we would go home at the end of the day or the end of a week with just a big wad of cash.

It rolled up and we put underneath our bed and that’s where we kept our till. ’cause that we had a till back then and we had to have a float. And we were hiring my mom’s and and dad’s friends and I was hiring my high school buddies. It was really cool. That’s amazing. You’re 17 hiring your parents’ friends.

Oh yeah, yeah. Hiring and firing. There’s people that come to work stoned and I was like, oh my gosh, I have to be this 17-year-old kid that’s telling a 20-year-old dude. They can’t do that. But it was part of the job. Yeah. And yeah, we learned a lot. So then fast forward, I did my undergrad, grad traveled and I found myself in this world of public relations that I did for 13 years.

And I just got out of, back in December. So like, what was that, five months

Emily: ago?

Renee: Four months ago? Yeah. I

Emily: can’t wait to hear the part of this story ’cause I like just saw that you sold your agency. I did, yeah. Yeah.

Renee: But it, so the world of, of public relations was, so, put it this way, we had enough data to know if a client, we could help a client be successful.

’cause we had a, a win rate. So it’s like whatever percentage of our pitches actually got a yes was went to our win rate. And so we were operating at about 30%, 30% of our pitches would, would result in a Yes, which was great. It was above industry standards. And fast forward to like even last year, we were working harder, we were working smarter.

We were have all these systems in place from all these years of how to do pr and we were charging less because that’s, people weren’t paying the big bills anymore. And our, our win rate was like less than 5%.

Hmm.

Renee: And I’m like, I don’t have this energy to actually figure out how to make this work. Public relations does work.

It’s just shifted and I’m done.

Emily: Yeah. I’m so done. And I, I totally understand that as an agency, it’s like, yeah, obviously I’m still in it and, and have a team that was able to, you know, go and figure it out. But just the market’s changed so much in the last two to four years.

Renee: Yeah. So COVID kind of changed the industry ’cause it used to be that earned media, which is typically PR was the most trusted source.

And now people are like, no, I’ll figure this out. It’s not, these could be lies, it’s just about who you know. So I just didn’t wanna play that game. It just, it just felt inauthentic. Plus when I actually came to the industry, I was really in content marketing and social media. My co-founder was the one in pr and after a year and a half in business, we really dove deep with our numbers and we found out we had a much larger ROI doing just pr.

We could charge the same and not have to do all these other things. So we’re like, let’s just do that.

Mm-hmm.

Renee: So for the five years I ran my first agency, I never pitched, I never did anything. I didn’t know, I just ran the agency. And then I got back into it with a company called We Wild Women, which is about supporting female entrepreneurs and getting and increasing their authority.

And it just, it changed and I’m like, I’m out. I’m out.

Emily: Yeah. But it ended

Renee: up ex, I ended up exiting in a beautiful way.

Emily: Yeah. Tell me a little bit about that and how was that decision? I think that one of the last times I talked to you, you were kind of trying to decide what to do. Yeah. And that was like, I don’t know, maybe a year ago when I was on your show and you were like, I might help Dan.

Like things are really taking off for him. I could, you know, go all in back with my agency. And you hadn’t decided yet when I talked to you. So how, how’d you come to that decision? Or did an opportunity present itself and then that’s what kind of made you decide

Renee: Yeah, I had already decided. But I was just gonna shut it down.

Mm. So what happened was, there was one night, it was like about this time last year, maybe a little bit earlier, and I was, it was 9:00 PM I was at the kitchen counter pitching and following up, checking emails, like living in my inbox. That was just the state of running a public relations company. As you live in your inbox, and I’m married to the man who wrote the book, buy Back Your Time, who does not check emails at all.

So he’s like, this is weird. What are you doing? I’m like, I’m working. And he goes, no, but really, what are you doing? Why, why are you stressing yourself out over all this? And that was the moment I was like, I’m, I’m just, I’m done with this Next day. Fired my clients. Said, I gave them one month’s notice and said, here’s what I’m doing.

But also at that time, so I didn’t fire all of them. I just fired the ones I didn’t feel like working for anymore. Right.

Yeah. And so we still had lot of energy. Yeah. I saw them a

Renee: roster. And it wasn’t like a month later I was having this conversation with a friend and she’s like, wait, I’m actually looking to acquire a public relations agency to complete my full service agency.

So why don’t we chat? Okay, what does this mean? I’ve never really like been in this position before and was six months later she acquired the company and I went in and created their para department, trained their entire team, and brought in my clients, helped them close deals, and then it wasn’t even maybe two months ago, walked away completely.

Emily: Wow, that’s amazing. Congratulations on that new season. I mean, I know how challenging agency life is and how hard it it can be to have balance of, of being a mom and running an agency and I think you either get out or you build a whole team that runs it and like that’s the options. ’cause it’s a lot. So that’s amazing

Renee: for you.

Yeah, it was a lot. And I don’t regret it. I wish I would’ve done it sooner. It’s just like there’s this whole like narrative around if you’re really good at something, why would you change course? Why would you go and do something else? For me, it was so easy to land clients and it just came naturally to me because like I knew what I could do for people.

Kind of like how you run your agency, you know what you can do for people. And I was walking away from all that opportunity.

Emily: Yeah. And was there like a fear of what if that’s a mistake and, and I don’t know what, but while you were deciding, was there a fear? Like what do you think held then when you say I should have done it sooner?

Like, what made you hold on for so long that

Renee: I had just reincorporated the company, so I just went through all the paperwork, spending thousands of dollars with lawyers and like all the, and I was like, the year prior I just went through a, so I’m like, what am I doing? But. There was also like, when I reflect back in those moments, I never questioned it.

And I should have because I knew instinctively I didn’t wanna do it anymore. Of course. Like my gut was, it usually works. Don’t run as fast as you can go. And there was no, there was no reason for me financially to have to be in that position to work ’cause we were doing so well and today doing so well.

Then I started to follow my heart and creating what I’m doing now. And it’s funny because I find like the money comes easier. Yep. Now ’cause I love what I do.

Emily: Yeah. And that’s the way it works. But it’s, it takes experience to learn that I feel like. And making the mistake of not following your heart many times.

And then once you know, it’s like, why haven’t I been doing this? I know. It’s like, why did they take so long to do this?

Renee: Why’d they make it so hard? Yeah. It’s, it’s kind of like you have to let go of. A version of yourself that people have grown to respect, to refer. I still get emails from friends, close friends that are like, Hey, can I hire you to do a PR strategy?

I’m like, I’ve been out of this for quite some time.

Yeah. And

Renee: there’s part of me that’s like, yeah, I could do it. It’s an easy 10 k and it would take me a week. You have to say no, because if you say yes, then you’re back in the game.

Emily: Right. And then that’s the message you’re giving. You know the universe too, of like, oh, actually I want more of those opportunities versus what you really want. 

That’s it. Yeah. And

Renee: so in that moment, it’s like I could have done it, it would’ve been a mental load until I actually completed the project. So whether or not I was actually, like if I said I’ll start in a month from now, that whole month, I’m still carrying that notion of having to do that work. And for me it always becomes a distraction.

Then I’d have to do the work, and I know it’s taken me away from the things I’m passionate about. And I would actually in reverse pay that 10 K to be with my kids. So I’m like, that’s more important. Yeah. So then I’m like, I’ll just refer my agency, my old agency. I’ll just refer like friends in the industry that can do this work.

And I don’t care about a kickback, I just want them in the right hands. But I just needed to say no. Yeah. Like, I should celebrate that more.

Emily: Yeah. And how did you, how did you learn that? Like, how did you go from the place of making decisions more from the head of like, I, I invested in the lawyers, I did this and so I’m gonna stick with this, I’m gonna grind it out, you know, to making the decisions based off of passion and from the heart.

Like what was that journey like for you?

Renee: Well, when you actually do it once and you start to feel that feeling, yeah. Then it’s like, it’s an addiction. And also I say once

Emily: you know, you know, yeah. And you can’t

Renee: unknow and like the season of No too, like we’re in this invested in the season of no meaning.

Like no to the wrong friendships, no to the opportunities that just aren’t gonna serve us. And finding a way that creates this. S balance and structure like, like internally, but as well at home was like the big thing for me. The, the fact that I’ve been here for a month in Austin and like after this, by the time I get back to our place, it’ll be, I don’t know, we’ll say one o’clock.

Mm-hmm.

Renee: And I’ve cleared the afternoon to be with my kids and just having that freedom, it’s like the freedom. You can’t put a price on that. I could not do that in the world of pr.

Mm-hmm.

Renee: No, because you have to be on top of it all the time. The news stuff, the news jacking the opportunities, the pitch reply that needs to book them on radio right now, it’s like, I don’t know.

It was, it was just too much for me.

Emily: It sounds like you got to a place where then you pushed yourself to, to the limit and then you were like, I just can’t do this anymore.

Yeah.

Emily: And that’s what got you to go, okay, there’s gotta be a, a better way, a different

Renee: way. There always is. Like even if I, even if someone forced me to get back to start a PR agency again, I would do things so differently.

Emily: Of course. I mean, of all you learn through the experience and I wouldn’t be the one

Renee: pitching.

Emily: Yeah. It

Renee: turns out people actually do love doing that. And I had trained my assistant to do that and she had no prior PR experience. She does it for me now. She pitches me to be on podcasts and me to be in the media and she loves it.

Yeah, it’s crazy. Yeah. So it’s funny because the things you don’t love to do, other people might love to do. Totally. And so we shouldn’t shame that work, but we should not be doing it.

Emily: Well it’s like is it in alignment with you? Yeah. And and we’re, and like the season too that you’re in, you’ve got young kids and you wanna homeschool and you guys are in this season of like traveling and maybe homeschooling.

It’s, I think you have to weigh that too. Like something that was in alignment for you maybe 10 years ago, five years ago is probably not anymore. And we have to question those things. And I think, I think it’s such a common experience to like ignore. The intuition and ignore that inner voice until you can’t ignore it anymore.

And a lot of people experience then it’s like the burnout. Mm-hmm. The the moments of of like, I’m so unhappy, I can’t do this anymore. I’m not present with my kids or actual health issues or something that it’s like, okay, you can’t ignore it anymore. And then that’s when it’s, you start to learn how to actually listen to yourself.

And like you said, once you do it, it’s a skill. It’s actually a skill. Like we have to learn how to do it. And I don’t know if you have this experience, but I mean, I’ve also been on a journey, especially the last two years, of learning how to listen to that voice. Because I originally built my business from a place of like almost ignore that.

Voice and just grind it and push and like make it happen and have the willpower, which got me to a point of success. Right? And then, and then once you create enough success, you’re like, okay, now what am I doing this for? And what’s the point? Mm-hmm. And then it is like, there’s more, there’s something missing and I don’t know what it is.

And

Renee: I think it’s seasons. I know Alex Hermo, he shared something not that long ago about if I could give any like 16-year-old boy advice. Did you see this post? And he’s like, I think it was like work. Yeah, yeah. Like 16 a bunch, 16 to 21. You should be working 24 7. And I’m like, okay, maybe. But it’s actually not for everybody.

So I, I wouldn’t go back to my 18-year-old self and say, you should be working more. Actually the advice I’d give her is like, you should start investing whatever money you have, invest. That’s it. But it’s really not about working more. What happens is, and we see this a lot, especially with like the stuff that my husband talks about with buying back your time is like when you start to get more freedom and flexibility in your calendar, we have this default propensity to just fill it with stuff as opposed to just letting it be a space, letting it be thing where you can grab your book and go read in the sun or go swimming with your kids.

So the problem is that we start to add more to our plate, then we start doing more things in a mediocre fashion and we do more crappy work, and then it burns us out because now we’re responsible for all these things.

Emily: It’s an addiction too. It’s an addiction I think. I mean, it’s an addiction being constantly fully packed and busy.

I feel like, and I don’t know if you feel like this too, but I feel like being a mom helps you with that because you’ll actually only have so much time that you can work in the business and I. And then you, like, my nanny leaves at four 30, you know, that’s time for me to, to be with the kids. Yeah. And so there’s an end time to my work.

And I feel like once I had kids, my productivity was so much increased because now you have this chunk of time and it’s like, you will, you gotta get it done in that chunk of time. And Elon talks about that all the time where he gives his team like, this is the deadline. And it’s like they figure out how to do it in that, in that time.

And so,

yeah,

Emily: I, I think that, and then an awareness to, okay, why am I doing these things? Like why am I saying yes to this project? Why am I, you know, running this campaign? Why do I have this offer? And, and like you said, like I think you said a minute ago, like, I didn’t question it and I should have questioned it.

And I think that, that you have to have the white space to have the reflection period to ask yourself like, what do I really want? Like, where am I going? What is the reason behind these things? Am I just saying yes to say yes and. Sometimes I’ll, I’ll talk to entrepreneurs who say yes to every opportunity and they, they haven’t connected yet.

A, a yes is also a no somewhere else. Yeah. Every single time. Right. And I think when you don’t have clarity on where you’re going and your purpose and your mission and your dreams and your goals, like, ’cause that’s like the lighthouse. Yeah. It’s like this is where I’m going and therefore I can make decisions that either support or don’t support this.

But when you’re just going to go and wake up every day and spin your wheels, like you don’t have that guidance. Well think about like the thing that feels like a grind.

Renee: Like when I ran my, my PR agency, there were like 90% of the stuff I love to do. 10% I didn’t. And the 10% were things like writing pitches and pitching and following up.

But that’s probably the most important thing. But you can hire for that. So I always say reflects on the things that you are like butting up against the stuff that you resist because it’s a sign, it’s data and it’s either like, don’t do that, hire for it or just say no. We have, for instance, I have an event coming up in Kelowna, BC and we have incredible people that like offer to volunteer or speak or put stuff in the VIP bags.

But we’re, we have rec capacity, there’s only so much we can say yes to and it’s hard saying no to somebody that is a beautiful person and they just mean well and they want support, but you have to. Yeah. And we just say, we get it. We’re, we’re good.

Emily: Yeah. And, and not making it, you know, personal to them, but just you’re making the decision what’s best for, for the event.

That’s this time. And I mean, that takes a lot of intention.

Mm-hmm.

Emily: And, and a lot of facing those things that come up with like, I don’t wanna hurt feelings and like, but that’s upset me. That’s the thing. It doesn’t matter

Renee: what you do, you’re gonna hurt somebody’s feeling. And I actually just published, I think today an episode about triggers too.

How people are triggered and someone’s trigger has nothing to do with the other person and everything to do with themselves. I had to had a tough conversation last week. We had agreed to have a food vendor come on board as a sponsor for this event. I never knew this person, my co-host for the event did introductions made.

And to have somebody sponsor the event for a thing that has a high expense was really cool. But there was something about. I don’t wanna say them. It just didn’t, it just didn’t feel right.

Hmm.

Renee: And there was like little things that kept adding up. Like they were really slow at replying. They had some bigger demands and I was like, Hmm, I don’t think they, they’re the right partner.

They don’t see the vision. And we ended up really aligned with somebody else. It’s another company that has healthy meal preps that we actually use. And they wanted to come in as a food sponsor. I was like, oh my God, this is perfect. But now I have to go back and have this conversation with this other person.

And my co-host for the event is super connected with like the event space in the community. I didn’t want her, her and her reputation to be burned. So I said, I’ll take the call, don’t worry about it. And I just called them and I said, Hey, here’s the situation and I wanna be completely honest with you, nothing to do with you.

Everything to do with me wanting to work with this company. He goes, that’s cool. No problem. Like, and the whole day before I was so worried that he was gonna be malicious and then like, he was like, that’s fine. And then I asked him about his business and we chatted and then left and that, because my intuition said, don’t work with them.

Right. There’s

Emily: a misalignment.

Renee: They’re, and they’re not bad people. It’s just kind of like a person who likes a hamburger over a hot dog. I don’t know. Right. Yeah. There’s different people in the world. And old me would’ve just been, you know, let’s just go with it. We already committed, but then I would’ve felt like, this isn’t the experience I want for my people.

So you have to have those hard decision or hard conversations. Trust your instincts. I

Emily: mean, that’s a big thing of, of the trust, your instincts. Yeah. It sounds like that’s been a big evolution for you in the last

Renee: several years. Mm-hmm. Like even the nose to certain people in our lives. There’s people that we’ve been friends with forever and it’s almost like they don’t want us.

To grow or succeed because they’re worried about being left behind. Mm. And they’re not willing to actually do the work to grow as, as they could. And it’s not about keeping up, it’s just about being cheerleaders. Like we don’t have to be on the same playing level playing field, but I don’t want you to bring me down.

And we had to let some of those people go on that stuff. That sucks. But guess what? Then it opens up this space for other people who are like, let’s go. Let’s do this. I’m gonna be your biggest cheerleader. And like instinctively, we know who those people are.

Mm-hmm.

Renee: And you have to have those tough conversations.

We’ve had interventions with family members that was kind of creepy and weird. And, and it worked though. It worked. Honestly, I think it really comes down to like the conversation you have to have with yourself and then with the people around you. That might be the triggers because it has nothing to do with anybody else.

Emily: Right. And I think that the more secure you are. In who you are and your own values and yeah. What you want for your own life, which there is no right or wrong to that, right? Like we have free will. Everyone’s entitled to Yeah. Whatever they wanna pursue in their life. And so I think the more secure you are in that, the more clear you get to be on who and your environment and what you wanna let in and what you don’t.

And then you’re able to confidently have those conversations or make those decisions. But it as with everything, starts

Renee: with ourselves. Yeah. That’s tough. You got me thinking about even just when we hired a house manager and we had friends, we were inspired by friends of ours who had one and we’re like, we can do this.

We, we can actually have somebody else come in and be there 40 hours a week and do our groceries and laundry and be with our kids. I secretly had one for a while. Like, I didn’t tell any family or friends because I felt were gonna be judged. And the comments came like, oh, must be nice, or, that’s like such a privileged thing.

And I thought, yeah, you know, it is. But if you look at a lot of other cultures, there’s a lot of families. Like there, the village exists a hundred

Emily: percent

Renee: where grandmas and aunties and like friends help care for kids and do this stuff. We just live in this culture where we’re just so like stuck in, in our own four walls and we don’t accept help from anybody else.

So after the comments came and I processed them, I said, oh gosh, they’re just jealous or envious. And I don’t, I’m, I don’t intend for them to feel this way. That’s not the point. And I got more comfortable talking about having a house manager and what that means doesn’t mean I’m a terrible mom because I actually have more quality time with my kids now.

I hate cooking. I don’t have to cook anymore. That’s amazing. I don’t mind doing laundry. I still participate in household duties ’cause she’s there 48 hours a week. But she brings so much joy to our family because we have time together. We can come to Austin for a month. We can world school and homeschool and go to all these activities that there’s no shame in it.

So I spent all this time lying about and not telling people about some of the things that we were doing ’cause I was so worried about what they’d say.

Emily: Yeah. And you had to, you had to first face, okay, I don’t actually feel bad about this. Like I feel in alignment with this decision and then you could show up.

I didn’t enough. Yeah, you didn’t at first, which is why you hid it. Right. But until you, you got and had that conversation with yourself of like, okay, it’s a community and, and, and this feels okay for me and, and my family. And once you were secure in that, then you were able to share it confidently with people around you. 

And I mean, I have the same, a four 40 hour full-time. Nanny slash she does do house manager stuff ’cause my kids will be in school and I feel exactly the same. Like we should have community. And I learned early on as a 20-year-old mom, as soon as I could afford it, I had to pay for my help. Like my parents are young, they had careers, we’ve even lived in the same town with them for a while.

I didn’t have help and I just learned if I wanna be happy and and not stressed out all the time for my kids and run a business, I gotta get help. Mm-hmm. Period. And since I could afford it, which was probably like eight years ago, we’ve had a full-time nanny. And I tell this to people all the time, it’s like when I’m with my kids, I’m actually like playing with them and I’m like having conversations with them.

I’m not like doing loads of laundry and cooking and running around the house and trying to clean. I mean, the weekends still get a little bit like that for me and I’m like, oh my gosh, I can’t imagine this. But that’s humbling. It’s humbling that way. Yeah. And it creates gratitude. But my nanny is, is a part of our family.

We travel with her too, and I call her my wife. Like, she’s like, she is truly like a wife. Yeah. That’s like Betty and my kid’s second mom and she loves him. Like, yeah. Like, you know, mom, it’s so special. And, and yes, it is a privilege a hundred percent, but I also, I worked for this, like I started from nothing and I couldn’t afford it.

And we did what we had to do then where we split the day, my husband and I, and we just like, were part, you know, partners in it. And, and so I think also we’re like, you know, I’m passionate about this one because people use it as an excuse of like, well, I don’t. I can’t afford that yet, or mm-hmm. That, that’s too much of a privilege.

And like, you’re lucky and it’s like, as long as you use it as an excuse, you’ll never have it.

And

Emily: until you see that, you could have this too. Yeah. Everyone could have this, you know, it might take a year to get there, but also you can get creative trade with a mom, you know, like figure it out so you, you can get some help.

So

Renee: on the, like, not being able to afford it, there’s another thing that comes up a lot too, is trying to convince your partner. ’cause it’s, it’s oftentimes, like in my world, it’s the husband or the, the male partner that has to convince the female partner. And what I was gonna say to this, oh my gosh, my brain just paused for a second.

Convincing your partner. Yep. It was beyond that. The, oh, the, being able to afford it. I thought it was very like, lavish thing because I grew up in a household where mom did everything. I went to college at 18 years old and did not know how to use the washing machine. I had to have girls on the floor helped me.

Which is so embarrassing. And I was like, I’m never gonna raise my kids. Like they’re gonna learn how to use a gas stove in their laundry as soon as they’re walking. And they do. They know how to do it. But the not being able to afford it, it doesn’t mean you have to go hire somebody for 40 hours a week.

Totally. It could literally be two hours. Or it could literally be one thing like meal prep or laundry, or how about if you already have a cleaning person, have them do something extra. So we introduced the concept of our cleaning person doing our groceries. This was like the early days of building up to get a house manager.

And I asked her, I said, Hey, like if you paid your mileage and obviously your time, would you do this? And she’s like, oh, nobody else has ever asked me to do this before, but sure. And she did. And not only did she do it, she crushed it because even in her off time and she happened to be in the grocery store and something that we usually buy was on sale, she would get it to save us 50 cents.

Amazing. Her dollar. I love that. Which, and she was so proud of, and I like, I love that about her. So then that, that gave me two hours a week back and I was charging $200 an hour at the time. Oh, see, the math is nothing. So then we would just, instead of her coming six hours one day, now we’re hiring her for eight hours across two days.

So she did twos and Fridays. So she was cleaning groceries. Now we asked her to do laundry and on the very rare occasion to watch our kids ’cause she didn’t really like kids. That’s okay. And it, we built up this playbook to the point where we were getting so much time back that we could not only just afford her, we could afford her full time.

And that’s when things become affordable. It wasn’t like we could afford a $80,000 a year person from the beginning. Nope. Right. Overnight. But it was, yeah. A cleaning person for a thousand bucks a month. Yeah. Whatever it was. I actually just recorded a beautiful podcast episode with Jillian Harris and we talk about this ’cause she has no shame in saying we have full-time help.

And here’s how it works and this is how we do it. And she’s like, this person is family. I’ve given her the most incredible job. She gets paid well, treated well, anything she needs, not too many employers can do that. And I’m sure it’s the same for you guys ’cause it’s family. It’s like our Betty got married last January, so a year ago, and she’s from Czech.

So her and her now husband, they went back to check to get married and they were gone for a month and we supported them in their travels and their wedding, gave them beautiful gifts and I, and I couldn’t imagine a nine to five employer that would be okay for a month off. Yeah. It was hell for me. And I appreciate my hair so much.

Nanny’s gone. I’m like, not the nanny, but you have to think of like the baby steps and ask yourself for women, do you deserve it? And the answer is, heck yes. See, I didn’t believe like I was worthy of this help. I would sneakily go and like. Helpful the laundry or maybe mop the floor vacuum. ’cause I felt so guilty that somebody was doing this for me.

’cause I thought it was my job. No, my job is to do things I love to do and be happy and have the foundation of like a safe and healthy family. And being an entrepreneur means that you need that help. Or even people that work crazy hours nine to five, you still need that help. Right. Everybody does. You can’t do it alone.

Emily: Yeah, you’re right. You know, there is so, so many women who do they feel like their job is to be a full-time mom and run their business and it’s actually impossible. Yeah. Like something has to give. I don’t think I, I, I didn’t, I didn’t feel guilty getting help. I think because I am the breadwinner that I was able to be like, well I deserve this.

So I think that I. I had that. Now I obviously, mom, guilt is real and you’re always like, yeah, I, you know, am I spending enough time with my kids? And like you making sure that, having awareness around that. But for me it was always important for me to make sure people knew that I had help because I was like, I don’t wanna be giving the image that I’m doing it all.

Yeah. Like you can have it all, but you can’t do it all. And, and you bring in the support and the systems and you know, one of the biggest reasons I am an entrepreneur is to design the life of exactly what I want it to be. That’s it. You know? And I think your business is a mechanism and a mechanism for your impact and your purpose, and also to have the life you want.

And for me, like in this season, it’s like I train 10 hours a week. I work out 10 hours a week, and my business is like built around, allowing me to do that. And. And the support that I have. And I, so I’ve always wanted to be transparent with the help because I didn’t want someone who’s at the beginning phases to look at the life I have and go like, how is she doing it all?

It’s like, I’m not, I’m not doing it all. I’ve got a team supporting me in many different areas. But going back to what you said of like, you, you build that up. Like it wasn’t overnight that I had, you know, same, a full-time nanny. It was like 10 hours a week, 15 hours a week, and then we built that up as we could afford it and also as it became more normal for us in our life.

Renee: Yeah. And even with the stuff that Betty does, like before it was the, the basics of like managing the house and some of the kids’ stuff. And now it’s at the point where she is helping us source real estate and more vehicles for my husband’s car collection and doing all the insurance and paperwork for all that stuff.

And she’s helping sign kids up for camps and extracurriculars and driving them places like she is my second wife. Yeah, I even yesterday, Dan and I were going for a little sunset drive and the boys were on the couch As I was leaving, I’m like, bye guys, I love you. And they’re just watching a show. So they were just totally hypnotized.

And Betty goes, I love you too.

I’m like, actually, but truly do. Yeah,

Renee: I know my nanny’s like one of my best friends. Like Yeah,

Emily: yeah, yeah. Family.

Renee: Oh, she’s great. We actually did escape room yesterday, the four of us. And that like, not Dan, it was like Betty, myself and the two boys. We had a blast. Such a blast.

But to going back to this, what it really comes down to is anybody’s life is an opportunity. Is it? It’s like how you live your life is an opportunity for somebody as well. It doesn’t matter where you came from. Even my husband’s story is pretty gnarly. And look at where he is at now. I don’t share that same colorful past, but I also, what he has and what I didn’t have was that sense of worthiness that I deserve this.

I had to break through that before it even became a possibility. Like even world schooling next year. My husband’s been asking for 10 years. I’m like, Nope, I can’t do it. I don’t wanna do it. He’s like, you don’t have to, it’s somebody else. Then I’m like, no, it’s gotta be me because that’s what the pressure is.

I, I gotta do it all. So when I became okay with the fact that it doesn’t have to be me, but I’m going to be on this journey, everything just kind of this like plinko just like the things just start falling into place

Emily: and

Renee: that’s where we’re at now.

Emily: And how do you feel, like, how, how did you, you know, someone listening to this who struggles with the guilt and struggles with feeling like they have to do it all?

Yeah.

Emily: And, and those experiences that you had of like sneaking in doing the laundry and doing this ’cause you felt guilty, and how did you overcome that? Like, did you have certain experiences? Did you.

Renee: There’s so many things. Yeah, so many things. And I’ll say as of late with like the, the organizing, like we have this gorgeous home in Austin here that we’ve rented for the month, but it’s, it’s a luxury property that was built and designed to be a rental place.

So you know what it’s like going into a rental place. So I walk into the pantry and there’s just like doodads and ends and all this stuff here from like different things that people have accumulated over the years and it drove me insane. And the first thing I did was reorganize the pantry. And my husband goes, well, that’s a waste of time.

This is not even our house. And then there was this guilt, but I realized I love organizing and I actually had so much fun doing it, which is so weird for him to conceptualize. So I put two and two together not even that long ago, that I love doing these things. And even though we have somebody that we’ve hired to do it, I can still do it when I feel like it.

And so I still do, sometimes I do laundry, sometimes organize a pantry. But like the little things were those little moments when I’m like, oh, my kid is sick and can’t go to school. And normally it would be me having to just completely derail my entire day. Now it’s like, Betty Noah is sick. Can you come in early?

No problem. So he’s in good hands and I still get to go do the thing. I love to do little moments like we’re traveling for the month and we have these big deliveries coming to the house. We have new blinds being installed and we don’t have anybody there to manage it. Betty manages it, even from afar, so I don’t have to worry about that stuff, and it just gets done.

The biggest thing for me is that we get to employ somebody very special who has become part of our lives and loves our kids and our dog just as much as we do. That’s the biggest thing.

Emily: And it sounds like to me as you’re talking, it’s like you had a belief. A past belief of if I don’t do these things, I’m not a good mom.

Yeah. Or I’m not enough. And through the experiences that you had of it, like somebody helping you and you going, oh wait, but I’m still a good mom. Like my kids are still good if not better because I’m able to show up better. Like so you learned through a lot of consistent experiences and kind of rewire that belief of no, I am still a good mom.

My worth is not in like how much I

Renee: clean and No. Or like how prettier family photos are at Christmas time. Like my worth is, what it comes down to is I believe that God made Dan and I parents to these kids for a reason, and I’m not a stay at home mom. I also think that’s the toughest job in the world.

And there’s no, I don’t, I don’t want that pressure. I will not do that. But I also know that where we might feel like we’re feeling as mothers is. It’s important that that’s the lesson for us to heal, to get over. So we teach our kids how to heal as well. And when you look at the perfect mom, like society’s expectations of what the perfect mom is, is like every family photo.

Everyone’s dressed in matching clothes and perfect haircuts. Their back to school photos are perfect. They have homemade like from scratch pancakes every morning for breakfast. Kids don’t care. They don’t care. What they care about is these micro moments. Like this morning when Noah was in the hot tub, he’s just cir, he’s in the hot tub at like seven 30 in the morning.

He’s there every morning. I was reading my book and he’s like, can I talk to you? And I was like, yeah, sure. So I put my book down and I stand there for 20 minutes and I said, babe, I have 20 minutes. I gotta get ready ’cause I’m gonna go meet my friend Emily. And we just chatted about stuff, about seeing his friends this weekend about schoolwork and how he didn’t wanna do math that day.

And I know that 20 minutes meant more to him than. Anything else I could do that day? Anything else? And it was that intention of being like, yes, babe, put my book down. What do you wanna chat about? That’s it. Yeah. And I was like, can I, I gotta go, can I go now? He’s like, yeah, you go

Emily: have fun. Good luck.

That’s so cute too, that he knew to be like, can I, I just wanna talk to you, Bob. That’s it. And he like knew how to ask for, for that as well. And, and

Renee: so we don’t have to have big, fancy houses or all the toys in the world. We don’t have to have, we don’t have to be the one cooking their pancakes or doing their laundry.

We need to be the one that are there for them in those micro moments when they just need to have a cuddle or do a, a puzzle or snuggle at bedtime. Like it’s, it’s those little moments throughout the day or the week that matter the most. There’s actually a lot of studies on this too. There’s a study they did with boys, younger boys from age like five to 12, and fathers who are not typically home ’cause they’re off working or traveling, whatever it is.

It didn’t matter how long they were gone, all that mattered was how they were like when they were home. And that was it. So when dad travels for work and he is home with the kids, that’s what mattered. So when we think about it, it’s just those moments when we’re supposed to be with our family, that could be 10 minutes, 22 minutes, and then you know, you’re a good mother.

Emily: Yeah. I mean, it comes down to the present moment and kids are so in the present moment, it’s something I’ve always appreciated being a mom of like, they have given me such an appreciation for the present moment. And especially when they’re young. As they get older, they, they think more future and past.

But I remember when I would travel and my kids are young, I’m like, they, they literally don’t care if I’m gone because like as long as in that moment they are fed, they’re happy, like they’re taken care of. That is all they know and that’s all they care about. And, and you, you’re so right. It’s the little moments because also I think as kids get older too, I have a friend who has, her daughter’s 13 and she’s like, they actually need you more as they get older. But you also never know when the moments are that they’re going to need you. So just like being around and then being able to drop into that present moment. ’cause you never know when they’re gonna bring up the thing about my friend at school who did this and I don’t know how to handle it.

And it’s like that’s the opportunity, right? And it’s not these like big planned, you know, I need to have two hours a day at this time. And I used to think that way. I used to like calculate like, okay, am I enough hours with my kids? Yeah, same. You know, from like five to seven. Yeah. It’s like,

Renee: it’s not that.

It’s even like Max was like, can you look at this video that I just edited? ’cause he’s got a little YouTube channel, like almost 4,000 subscribers that is so meaningful to him. The video that he just edited and it’s a 32nd video and I’m like on my way to a meeting, like walking across the house, I go, yeah babe, show me right now.

Let’s go. I got 30 seconds. He’s like, okay, cool. Watch. That is awesome dude. So awesome. Or even like the morning snuggles. When they just like, we have a rule in our house that we don’t, we’re not the first ones to let go. So the boys snuggle and like they’ll, they might hang out for 10 minutes and you’re like, yeah, like, like mostly they get bigger.

Yeah. I’m like, oh, even yesterday Max jumped on me. The kid is 12, he’s five foot seven and weighs 115 pounds. He’s not little anymore. And I was like, yeah, that’s fine. My, my lap can take this. And I just waited and I waited and I waited until he let go. Sometimes they’re so emotionally aware because of that love that we’ve given him.

They’ll say to me, are you good now? I’m like, you’re the one that’s, but yes, I’m good baby. My love tank is topped up. You can go and prosper. That’s so cute. Yeah. So I think the good mother is just that and like, who cares about the dirty kitchen? That was the story I kept have telling myself, who cares about the dirty sink or the garbages that need to be emptied?

The kids don’t care. Yeah. They really don’t.

Emily: Well, and and I mean if we bring it back to the theme of it starts with yourself.

Renee: Yeah.

Emily: In that, in that time where you’re caring about the image that’s, you’re, it’s comes back to a belief. It’s like, I believe that my worth is wrapped around how I present myself to the world.

Do I have the clinging kitchen and everything put together? But really it’s how do you feel?

Mm-hmm. And how

Emily: do you wanna feel? And can you, can you connect to that love and that presence? And, and I also wanna say as we’re talking about this, ’cause there’s so much mom guilt, it’s like, you’re gonna mess, you’re gonna mess up.

Like, oh yeah. There are moments where I’m not present with my kids when I should be and I want to be right. And I come back to it, you know, two hours later and go, dang it. Like I shouldn’t have been on my phone then. And sometimes I’ll apologize to my kids. That’s

Renee: it. But that’s it. Okay. So in that moment when you see that potentially this was not a great learning lesson for them, the apology is what builds stronger kids?

Like in those moments when it’s like, you gotta get to the bus, we have five minutes, like let’s go. And I’m enraged. And the kids are just like, the kids are gonna act how you act. So I’m like, great, we’ll get in car. Some days I’m just like, fuming. ’cause I’m so angry and I say, guys, I’m, I’m so sorry. I should not have, it’s not that I can take it back.

And it’s not that it’s never gonna happen again, but if they know that you can mend the situation by with an apology, it, it teaches them the biggest lesson. But I wanted to go back to talking about those, like just really quickly, those micro moments of acknowledgement with your kids. Also just as important with friends and family and your, your partner, like Dan and I do these things where we do takeoff and landings.

So whenever we’re gonna leave the house for a moment of time, we always say, bye. I love you. Kiss on the lips. And then as soon as we get home, beelined straight to them, I’m home. Love you. Kiss on the lips. That’s it. The acknowledgement. And so those are micro moments. So with your kids, with your partner, with friends, it’s the same thing and it’s super helpful.

Emily: Yeah. And, and what’s coming up is, is like the, the present moment. Yeah. As much as we can bring ourselves back to that present moment, it’s like, it’s not a lot of time, it’s the micro moments. It’s the five seconds to 10 seconds where you’re actually here in the room with the partner, the friend, the family member, the kid, versus thinking about the email or on your phone or on social media.

And it, and it takes effort every day.

Oh yeah.

Emily: You know, like it could have this morning when your son asked you kid, we talk, it could have been easier to be like, let me, I gotta jump on social media then I’m distracted by this like that. Sometimes that is easier than, no, let me take my attention and be fully present here and make this like intentional choice.

Yeah. To, to do that. And yeah. I think that is what kids really care about.

Renee: Yeah. I mean, even adults. I, I want that. Went. I’m like, Hey Dan, can I tell you about my day? And he’s like, I can’t. I gotta go. I’m like, dammit. So we do these things at the end of the day called the Meadow Report. So every night we both go to bed at the same time.

He’ll turn to me, he goes, well, tell me about your day, the Meadow Report. It’s like this thing Esther Perel told told us about where it’s like women at the end of the day would go and report about the meadow to see what was happening, what berries were poisonous, if there was grizzlies in the area. We don’t have to do that these days, but I’ll just say, oh, here’s what’s happening.

You know, here’s where I’m kind of blocked on something. Or here’s maybe where you piss me off about something takes five minutes. And it’s like, for women, just like, Ugh.

Emily: Letting all

Renee: that stuff out. Yeah. ’cause we need that.

Emily: I’m like, I’m the one like, wait, stay up. I need, I need to tell you yet this story of what happened today.

I’m like, pull

Renee: your journal. 10 pages, just hold on. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That’s it. And it feels so good. It’s like, think about the pressure cooker when you release the steam. It’s like all that comes out and. For the most part, there’s nothing to do. You just have to, the other person just has to listen. And with kids, same thing.

Like Noah, one needed to release that little steam. He didn’t wanna do the schoolwork today, and there was nothing for me to do, but to listen, you don’t have to fix things or correct things or suggest things. Be like, oh, that sounds tough.

Emily: Yeah. And, and just, yeah. Be seen. Yeah, be present with someone. That’s it.

It’s sim, it’s simple. It’s not always an easy choice, but it’s simple. No,

Renee: even if you’re employees, like when they come up to you and it’s like, how do I come up with this Meditech for this ad? I don’t know what the, the lingo is in your world. And you’re like, oh my God, it’s in the playbook. It’s there. Or sometimes it’s just a matter of, Hey, no problem.

Let me remind you where this is in the playbook. It’s right here and here, but is there anything that’s in there that I could, that’s, that’s not in there that I can help you with? And then most of the time you’re like, oh, thanks for the reminder. I’m good.

Emily: Yeah. Bye. So true. Yeah. So true. So okay, I wanna change gears a little bit and go to your story of, you’ve, you sold the agency.

Yeah. And now you’re working more in like, what you’re passionate about and Yeah. A lot of new exciting things or a few new focused, exciting things.

Renee: So many, so many, yeah. So

Emily: how did you, how did you decide, okay, this is, this is what I wanna do next, and what was that experience like and, and really leaning into following what you’re passionate about?

Renee: Okay. So I don’t, I wanna say I don’t think that I decided what I wanted to do next. It was, I don’t know if you believe in God or source, but I think that it was a download for me. It was kind of like, here’s the thing you can do. I’m gifting this idea to you, and if you’re not gonna do it, I’ll give it to somebody else.

But the timing was like. I need to do this thing. I don’t know what it is. I don’t have a 10 year plan. I don’t have projected sales. I don’t know. And it was something to do with this very clairvoyant download I got of a pink skirt years ago, which ended up becoming this symbol for like the armor that women wear when they have to go into like a tough situation or to feel empowered or motivated or inspired.

And it was all because I saw this bright pink skirt at this fashion show one day in 2019. That was the embodiment of the image I got. When somebody asked me what I thought success meant to me, I was like, pink skirt, pink skirt. Wait, what is this? What I realized is that I’ve created this movement called the Pink Skirt Project.

Where it’s starting with an event where people and women are feeling more empowered to do the things that scare them the most, but this in alignment with what they want to do. So the first iteration of this is an event June 12th in Columbia, BC called the Pink Skirt Project. 350 women in a room, maybe all in pink skirts.

I don’t know. They’re encourag to, that’s some really cool speakers. And beyond that, here’s what I know and what I love about this is so, so far we’re doing really well, like super successful with this event, which is kind of cool. You know, when you’re doing the right thing, when it’s like, it seems relatively easy.

It’s not like it’s not easy, easy. The money comes and people are happy. And beyond that, it’s like a movement. And I know that whatever this is, it’s kind of like the, the curtain’s gonna be lifted going into this event. And I already see glimmers of what it is by way of my community sharing things with me.

Like a woman shared a picture of to with me, of, of her in a pink skirt. And she goes, it’s one of those days I have having a pink skirt moment. I’m going into a day full of meetings with a bunch of men, and I wanna feel feminine and empowered. So I’m wearing my pink skirt. And I was like, that’s it. It’s like the pink skirt’s, iconic, and it’s just, it symbolizes all of our like failures and successes, trials and tribulations as women, as mothers, as entrepreneurs.

And, and it’s like the armor, it’s like the parachute, it’s like the umbrella that keeps us safe and warm and it’s the community. So I’m focusing on that and my podcast into the wild.

Emily: Yeah, I love this. There’s been a few themes of guests I’ve had on where the story is like as soon as I kind of released.

The identity and, and piece of like, for you it was your agency and like all, all, all that came with that, the beliefs and the identity of you being that something else just came like so easily. Yeah, and I think that that’s, it’s, it’s the concept of trusting the unknown and yes, I 100% believe in source in God.

And, and I think the more you can lean into that unknown of like, I don’t have to have every step figured out, but coming back to what you let yourself, I think we are the creators, right? God’s within us. We are. And there’s this theme right

Renee: now called the Butterfly Effect. I’ve seen the Yeah. The rails

Emily: about that.

Yeah.

Renee: And so I actually had the opportunity to interview Marina Middleton, who was the CEO of Creighton cultivate yesterday. And she was telling me her story about how she got laid off from Yahoo and it was like the job she loved, she thought she was gonna be there forever. And it wasn’t like five to six months later when her world completely changed for for the better because she met Jacqueline Johnson from Creighton Cultivate, they started to mastermind and now she’s the CEO.

So the butterfly effect is that if she would’ve stayed at Yahoo, this wouldn’t have happened. So it’s kind of like those moments where you think, this is the crappiest day I’ve ever experienced in my life. And I know there’s some worst case scenarios, but let’s not go that far. So say being laid off or say a top client firing you is always like this little, like I’m doing this for you.

Right. Somebody is doing it for you and you don’t know it until you actually believe that there’s something better or something greater that’s gonna happen. And that’s what happened with me with like shutting down or walking away from the agency. My first agency, I shut down, I burnt out ’cause I started that the same year.

I had both of my boys, they’re 11 months apart. But in this moment of like the exit, I was like, oh, by like I walked away from that identity. And, and, and no one, no one, no one cares. No one’s talking about it behind my back. No one even noticed. It’s

kind of like that’s the truth right there. Yeah. It’s like we, we care.

Renee: Yeah. We care. Yeah. No one cared. ’cause people ask me, what, like, what are you doing now? Are you, are you worried about the identity you created? It’s like, I don’t wanna embody that. So all this to say is like, it just really comes down to you can design the life that you want. There’s no shame in it. And you’re gonna lose people along the way.

They’re gonna break your heart, but also it’s for the better for you. ’cause you don’t wanna be stuck in that, that messy middle all the time. So if it means like downgrading your business or world schooling your kids, or whatever it is, buying this or renting this cute little space that is now your studio, do it.

Follow that passion. Follow your heart. Yeah. It’s like. Yeah, I think, I think like the hard days become easier when you’re doing something you love to do.

Emily: For sure. And, and I love how you also said, you know, I don’t really know beyond, like too much beyond this event and the movement I’m creating. ’cause I think that’s also important.

It’s like you don’t have to have the tenure plan. And honestly, where I’m at now, it’s like I don’t think you, you should like, I think you can have an an idea, but the more attached you get to it has to be this way, then you’re controlling it all and you’re not leaving room for that unknown beauty of how do you know an opportunity, you know, might come in six months or 12 months that we couldn’t have planned.

So I oftentimes say to people like, you just have to know the next one or two steps. And you have to be in alignment with, this is who I wanna be today, and this is if I know these next few steps and I have this vision of where I wanna go, who’s that person And I need to become them today. And just know my next steps and that’s it.

Renee: So two things. One is the book or the movie, catch Me If You Can, with Leonardo DiCaprio where he embodies these people that he’s not qualified to be one. I think he was like a sociology professor. And when they caught him, they asked him how did he do it? And he said I only needed to be a chapter ahead.

The other thing is the path, the entire path doesn’t need to reveal itself just enough for you to take that next step. So you think of like those pathways that are lit up by motion sensors where it only lights up the steps you need to actually see. Sometimes that’s the scenario. Where you only need to see where you need to take your next step.

Not like the entire staircase as they say. I used to think I need to have everything dialed in 90 page business plans like today. That’s a joke. ’cause nothing ever goes as planned. But to be the person that can course correct or to be okay with not knowing what’s gonna happen will make you a better entrepreneur.

Emily: Well, and I think that I used to be the same person. Actually, no. I’ve always been like build the airplane as you fly it person. But I think that the more you feel like you have to control everything, the more you feel like you have to have the the plan and you have to have it go exactly how you want it to go.

The more you learn, trust in whatever you believe in, I think that you have to have that in order to, to surrender. Like, because how can you trust in the unknown if you have nothing that you’re trusting? Has your best interest in mind and even better than you could ever imagine. Right? And so the last few years for me has been definitely connecting back to that, that connection.

And I’ll call it god, universe source. Like I, I don’t, I don’t call myself religious, but spiritual for sure. And that’s been a game changer in business because the more you’re able to trust the unknown and only need to have the next few steps or let’s say something that you would deem as terrible happens, you know, I’ve had key employees quit overnight and in situations that are bound to happen as a business owner, in those moments, the, the more capacity you build to go, okay, it’s gonna be fine.

And you can stay grounded in that because you have that trust in the unknown of like, everything happened. I really believe everything happens for a reason. And I mean, even just last week we had. A role we’re trying to fill. And we were sent out an offer letter and almost accepted, and she’s like, no, I’m gonna go with this other company.

I can offer more than we wanna pay. And my leadership team was like, oh, I feel sick over the, you know, they’re stressed. And I was like, guys, she’s not the right fit. Yeah. Like, she’s not the, the next better person is coming and we’ve, you’ve gotta stay in that energy. And the more that you focus on how can I make it work with her, like, what can we do the more you’re, you’re closing the door to that opportunity.

And so I’ve learned to like, the moment those things happen, it’s, it’s just, it’s just managing your thoughts and your beliefs around it. Mm-hmm. That’s literally all it is, is like, am I gonna choose to believe that this is a bad thing and it’s gonna cost me all this? Or am I gonna choose to believe that there’s a better thing around the corner?

And I think to have the bigger companies and the capacity to handle the inevitable things that happen when you have big companies between people fit. Quitting clients who knows what, you know, PR issues, like all the things that happen. You’ve gotta have that capacity and that’s, and you build that capacity.

But also I think that that connection to something bigger than you, in my opinion, is so necessary for For business owners. Yeah. But

Renee: also to know that not every problem is yours to solve. I think as a leader, sometimes that’s like the biggest reminder that we need. Even things around the house, like we had like a leaky unit on something and I was old.

Me would’ve been like, I need to, I need to, where’s the wrench? I need to fix this thing. And now I’m like, Betty, fix that. Even in the team or something happens with the podcast in production, like even yesterday, I was supposed to have, the place that we rented only has like one office. And Dan needed it and my guest had to move the thing, our interview up earlier.

I’m like, I don’t, I don’t have a place to go and do this. I have my camera, I don’t have a mic, I don’t have a light. I said, screw it. And I went to the dining room table and I got it done. And like, it’s not gonna be the best audio, but it’s, but I got it done. Old me would’ve said, no, let’s, let’s redo this.

Probably next week when I’m back home in my real studio. So it’s kind of like, how quickly can you be? Okay? Course correcting. So we need to, and how okay. Can you be with delegating and how Okay. Can you be with just not being the one that has to solve every single problem.

Emily: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I, I recently I went to a Joe Dispenza event.

Yeah. Yeah. And one of the, one of the million big takeaways that I left from that event is looking at anything I would’ve classified as a problem, as a challenge. Like, there, there are no more problems that I have. I, I have challenges I get to face. And when you as a human. When we give ourselves a challenge, we actually like the energy behind that is like, let’s go.

I’m gonna solve it. Like whether that’s delegating or a sol a solution outside of the box that I hadn’t considered, when you look at it as a problem, it’s like, oh, I’m a victim to this problem.

Mm-hmm.

Emily: And I, and it’s happening to me versus I get to take control of it. So that was a huge reframe for me and I think a lot of people, you know, as a businesses, it’s like you kind of can get into a season or where you’re like, I have all these problems I have to solve and I become a victim to my business and a victim to my clients.

And it’s like, no,

Renee: we are the creators of our life. This reminded me of a story. So obviously this reminder of the story was gifted to me right now because I need to share this. I was driving down these side roads on Prince Edward Island in Canada, this really cool island on the east coast, and I was with my boys we’re coming back from a week of renting a cottage with friends.

And I started to hear first of all, the roads are gnarly. Like it’s the, it’s not a very populated island, but sometimes the roads that Google takes you down turns into a gravel road and you’re like, but apparently this is where I’m supposed to go. And anyway, and it’s like crisscross. So took a wrong turn to try to avoid a gravel road, had to go back.

In the time there was this really, really loud sound that started happening to my front driver’s side tire. And I was like, what is this? Like, it was so loud and I would stop and it would go away. And then when I accelerated, I got really loud and I was like, started ruminating, okay, I have to call CAA, which is our car automobile association.

I need roadside assistance. Oh my gosh, I’m gonna have to run, run with like a spare tire. All these stories started to run through my head and I was like, this is a problem I have to solve. Just at the moment, I kid you not, when I decided to pull over to the side of the road to call my husband, I look across this little road and there’s this.

Little auto body shop owned by grandpa and grandma that have been there for 50 years. And there’s a bunch of guys outside taking a break, having a coffee and a smoke. And they’re looking at me and I go, are you kidding me? And I go pull in. And I go, guys, this noise that me. They’re like, yeah, you just gotta rock in your rim.

I, I’ll get it out for you. This guy goes under, he knows what to do. He pulls out the rock, he shows me, throws it away. He is like, have a great day, ma’am. I’m like, like what? Like, so you have to believe that the problem is a challenge, but also it’s not yours to solve. Like I didn’t have to do anything but sit there and be like, right there, there’s a

Emily: solution that can

Renee: be easy.

It’s find always, it’s always always easier. It’s always easier than we think.

Emily: Totally.

Renee: Totally.

Emily: Yeah. Yeah. Because our brains are wired to go, what’s the worst case scenario? You know? I don’t wanna die. Yeah. Yeah. And like that’s how we’re wired at, at our brains or that’s their job. And so we can. Overcome that for sure.

Yeah.

Emily: I mean, yeah. It’s all in how you show up and I think you build the capacity, the more you, you build your business and the more you build capacity for that, it’s like, ’cause the problems don’t get easier. No. They actually get way more challenging, way more the, the challenges get more complicated, but you build a capacity to be able to tolerate

Renee: it.

That’s it. That’s it. It’s like even with kids, like they used to trigger me so much now I’m like, I realize this isn’t gonna ever go away until they move outta the house. And that’s, that’s gonna be a tough pill to swallow too. But like, they’re fighting and they’re bickering or you know, people requesting refunds for their tickets for the event.

I knew this was inevitable. I don’t know a single event that went off without a hitch or went off without people needing a refund for some life event. And I said, okay, this is fine. This is two tickets because I. These one co-founder got really, really sick. So they can’t make it. It just means that somebody else, not necessarily better, but maybe who wants to be there more, is gonna be there.

Emily: Yeah. Or is supposed to be there.

Renee: Yeah. Quick refund. Or like, vendors that screwed up numbers and order. It’s like, that’s okay, we’ll

Emily: figure

Renee: this out.

Emily: I feel like especially for events, you have to have that mindset. Events are, yeah. Events have a lot of moving parts and a lot of, there’s always something unexpected.

Lots of unexpected things. Sure. Cause and if you go into, oh my god, into it with chaos and overwhelm and stress and panic, you’re in for, for, for a tough experie. So I experience

Renee: my best friend Chad, GBT, I go, here’s, here’s how I think of situations. Who do I need to hire to make sure that I have the minimal amount of rumination?

And they’re like an event manager. I was like, perfect. Love that. How much do they cost? So I turned to Anita, my co-host, and I was like, we need to hire somebody who’s doing all the things you and I are doing now. She’s like, well that’s expensive. And I go, no, it’s not. It’s was it extra six grand because she came in for only two months and she gets to manage all these things and I don’t have to worry about it anymore.

It’s actually cheap in my mind.

Emily: And ’cause it frees up your capacity for thought, the things that you should, you know, be like the ideas and the experience of the event and the vision of it. Yeah. Well

Renee: also she’s, this is what she does. So she sees things where we’ve missed, like one big thing was liability insurance.

I’m like, oops. And she goes, well this is where you can buy, or this is where you can, because we, we are under the umbrella of Martel Growth Solutions or Dance Company. And I’m like, Hey Todd, the CEOI go, do we have. All the stuff. He’s like, yeah, here it is. I’m like, oh perfect. There you go. I never would’ve thought about that.

And just like even how many people need to be at check-in because there’s 350 people coming at the same time. She has that experience, so I don’t have to worry about it. She’s just gonna do it. Right. It’s a shortcut her. She loves it. There we go.

Emily: Yeah. I get to be here. Yeah, exactly. And I mean, it’s a shortcut.

Like you said, you don’t have to learn through making the mistakes. At the first event, you get this shortcut of

Renee: Yeah,

Emily: of the experience.

Renee: We did most of the work already, but this, it’s just like, like hire the experts. Hire the house manager. Like hire the event manager sooner

Emily: than you think

Renee: you should.

Exactly. Yeah. Like when you have like an inkling that you can afford it, you can afford it and just do it.

Emily: And I think, and then value your, the time and energy that frees up for you and know okay, like that is valuable. Mm-hmm.

Renee: For other things. And don’t feel guilty about it. I remember coming home one day.

I don’t know. It was like the boys just got home from school. Betty was just coming on full time. I was so tired and this was when I worked from home and I was like dizzy, and I’m like, I just need to go lay down. I said, Betty, I’m gonna go upstairs and I’m gonna lay down for like 20 minutes. Is that okay?

She’s like, yeah, go. And I think I laid down for like two hours and I came back downstairs afterwards and I needed it. I was like, I was fine after that, but I could have stayed in that energy and just completely got, brought my tank to zero. But I just rejoiced in this rejuvenation, in this little nap or whatever it was.

But it is about investing your time wisely. It’s not about filling this extra time with something else. It’s actually more about doubling down the thing you’re really good at, especially in business, it’s about maybe taking that nap or spending time with your kids working out. It’s about fruitful outcomes, not grabbing a bag of chips and gonna watch Netflix.

Emily: Totally. Yeah. And I, and white space, like actual intentional white space, however you use that. Reading a book, sitting outside, doing nothing, meditation is valuable.

Renee: Oh my God. Is it ever into

Emily: creating the, the space for that, especially as a CEO.

Renee: Mm-hmm.

Emily: I think is a secret weapon. Like if more people knew how huge that was, they would do it

Renee: well.

So for the 30 minute drive here, the first half of it, at least the first 25 minutes, I couldn’t get my, my phone to work to get the podcast. ’cause I wanted to listen to somebody episodes finally did, but I was sitting in silence. And I do that a lot. Like I drive in total silence. I’m like, I’m just going to chat to myself.

I’m gonna talk to myself. And I did. And it’s like a form of therapy.

Emily: Totally. I, I do that all the time. I drive no music in silence and, and it, there’s like a state you get into of driving, I think, I’m pretty sure you’re in like a different brain state Oh yeah. Too, because you’re like not fully there. Yeah.

And so it’s, it can be powerful, but I, for me, as I have delegated over the years and valued my time and energy, it’s not necessarily of like, so I can do more and more, more. It’s actually, so I have white space so that I can have the capacity to do the things that I have said of like, when a challenge comes, if I’m like jam packed in my nervous system completely thinking we’re about to die every day because we’re in survival mode.

I can’t handle a challenge. You know, I’m gonna

Renee: explode. Well, there’s there’s proof that a lot of heart attacks happen while people are on vacation because they never had that time to relax. That all of a sudden now their body’s like, oh, we don’t need this adrenaline. We don’t need all this. Okay, well this is what I’m gonna do to you now.

And then they have heart attacks. Some people don’t recover, and it’s just proof that you need those moments of rest.

Emily: Well, because we can’t live, no organism can live in emergency mode every day. And so many people do. Like that’s what I’m learning as I study more and more like neuroscience and

Yeah,

Emily: and the nervous system and the different, like states that we’re in, in our brain, like most people are living every single day as if a lion’s chasing them and they’re in survival mode.

Mode. Oh my God. I,

Renee: I mean, I would if, if a lion did chase me, I’d be like, yeah, just get me now. Get over with. I get it. And I used to be like that too. My first year running an agency. Same. I launched it, I was eight months pregnant with my first son and 11 months later I welcomed my second son. So new business clients from South Africa to San Diego grew the team, new babies.

And I kept getting the, wow, you’re a power mom. You’re a power couple. Like, way to go, Renee. And I thought, this is great. I love this attention, I love these acco accolades. What a terrible message I was sending to the world because inside I was dying, like super unhealthy. Unhealthy in the sense that I was like, the doctor called me skinny fed.

I’d get like a super buttery bagel every morning, like a triple, triple coffee with like all the sugar. And that’s what sustained me. And I’d eat, the crap didn’t work out. And then things had to shift because I was not feeling well. I was always tired. I, but yeah, the point being it’s like you, we cannot operate in that mode.

Emily: No. Something will, I mean the body, it’s now proven with science. That’s like what causes disease. Yeah. That’s what causes all like. There were studies of, of where people, I, I’m gonna probably butcher this, but like the genetics, we used to believe like we had the genes for cancer, right? And you, you would have that inside of you, like you already had the genes.

Now it’s the environment triggers the genes, but it’s not necessarily the, like your house environment, it’s actually your internal environment that triggers the genes that triggers the disease, right? So the more stressed out you are and the more dysregulated, if your nervous system’s dysregulated, that’s in charge of every system in your body, right?

So that’s dysregulated. You now have the environment for disease.

Renee: Oh, it’s crazy. I went down this rabbit hole of studying SIBO and parasites. So Sibos, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth and parasites, which are the most common gut issue with people. And it doesn’t necessarily happen in your stomach or your intestines.

It could be outside of it too. And how. People that are like evil people with like Crohn’s disease or colitis, it’s because their nervous system is so dysregulated that their immune system is suppressed. And like things that, like if you’re like perfectly, your chakras are aligned and you were exposed to those same parasites, your body would just be like, boom, annihilate them.

But somebody who has a dysregulated nervous system, they get sick like that. They’ll get these SIBO and parasites, which then causes gut issues, which can cause reflux, which, which then contributes to colon cancer and stomach cancer and like all these things.

Exactly. Yeah.

Renee: And it’s not because you smoked a pack cigarettes or drank a bottle of wine, although that’s not healthy, but it’s really because this is affecting your head.

It’s affecting, yeah. What’s happening in your gut and your immune system is like your biggest force field.

Emily: Yeah. And I think, you know, having a regulated nervous system has kind of become like a buzz word. Yeah. And I think people think that it means like you’re calm all the time and you, and you’re just like, mm-hmm.

Like, like this. Yeah. It doesn’t actually mean that, it means that when a stressful situation does legitimately present itself, you can handle it and you, your body can handle it and then go back to homeostasis. That’s what it means to have a regulated nervous system. It talked about you walk around like Buddha, but you, the helps are able to handle, yeah, I wish I was Buddha.

I know, right? I was enlightened.

Emily: But you can handle the stress and then you can go back to not being stressed versus staying in that stressful place.

Renee: So the difference between a unhoused person and a monk, do you know the difference? Mm-hmm. I mean, there’s lots of obvious differences, right? The monk can have a thought, negative or positive enter their mind, and then they just release.

It just goes through. But the unhoused person holds onto that and it’s just, it’s trapped there. And, and this was the example that I heard, so this could be for anybody. But when we look at. Something we consider might be a worst case scenario is losing everything and having to live on the streets. And then you get exposed to substance abuse and addiction, which is very common.

They hold onto the story that that’s their worth as opposed to it just being a thought. And then, so if you release those negative thoughts, it’s almost like, it’s like this little roadblock and then it’s like, oh. Then you just keep going. You have to release it, and that’s when you can recalibrate. So recalibration is huge with everything, but you’re exposed to something pretty gnarly that happens in your day.

Somebody quits or somebody takes a better job off or, and instead of thinking, what did I do wrong? We’re better. How dare she? You’re like, okay, fine. Let’s find the next person. You are actually physically gonna be in a healthier position and your team sounds like not so much, which is the job of the leaders then need to meditate.

Yeah, exactly. And that’s

Emily: why I think it’s even more important for the leaders. ’cause you set the example and you, and you trained them

Renee: well. They, and they did all the work and they want the outcome. The outcome is this person whom it seems like everybody agreed was the right fit. Right. And then God’s like, he, he, Nope.

Yeah, I’m gonna

Emily: test you guys. Yeah. I’m gonna test you. And then something. I know for a fact somebody better will. But, but you

Renee: know what though? I genuinely believe something’s gonna happen. This person’s gonna come back to you guys. They’re gonna go take this job and it’s probably not gonna be a 10 outta 10.

They’re gonna be like, damnit.

Emily: Yeah. They, and they wrote, they wanna work for us, but it was the money. It was money. It was purely a money decision. So she very well could do that.

Renee: It never, it never is about money.

Emily: Yeah. She’s gonna be like that extra 10 grand a year, whatever it is.

Mm-hmm.

Emily: Right. Totally. And when she does, and then the time, you know, I’m just like, it’s all perfect.

Exactly. You’re like, it’s just state these days

Renee: it’s gonna be okay. It’s not gonna be perfect. But it’s a test because now you’re building this resiliency. And especially if you can just let that negative energy go and just know, it’s like, ’cause you can’t be thinking about that when you’re, when your job right now is to find the person to fill that role.

Right. Totally. Mm-hmm.

Emily: Yeah. Okay. One more topic I wanted to cover is relationships. Dear you and Dan Yes. Have such a beautiful, like, inspiring relationship, at least from what I know. I know there’s so much behind the scenes too, that work that goes into it. But yeah, I just wanted to, to bring that up.

And I think that being that, you know, power Couple, I know as a, as a label, but from the outside it seems like you guys put a lot of work into your relationship. You both have successful careers. He’s got a pretty demanding business. I know you’ve supported him with that while also growing your own thing and then having kids and.

You know, creating the, a life to where you guys very much value your time. You’re wake surfing with your kids, traveling with your kids, and, and its values that I share is like, what are we doing this for? Right. To create that life. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, talk to me a little bit about that and, and maybe even the work you guys have done that has helped the challenges that you’ve faced through your journey.

How much time right did we have for this? This might be a whole nother

Renee: podcast episode, but I’ll make it quick. We’re, we’ve been together for 15 years and I will say that we started with Divorce Energy, so we came into it pretty quickly. It was intense, but also that we were only dating for a year before I got pregnant with Max.

So we became Insta parents and never had the time to really like date each other. And ex and, and I will tell you this, we both agree that had I not gotten pregnant with Max as early as we did, we probably wouldn’t be together, but. We know this, this, there’s God keeping you together, working with spiritual therapists who said, God put you two together because every relationship has the opportunity to help others heal.

And the goal is to get to a sacred union. And I’m like, well, I mean that’s a bit much God for making me pregnant to stay with the person. Like we could have worked this out some other way. But anyway, and then Noah came too. It’s like, okay, I get it. I get it. And it wasn’t, it was, it was the toughest thing I’ve ever done was to be with with him in those early days, a hundred percent.

I’ve been sued for Ville dismissal. I’ve had a best friend, co-founder leave out of the blue. Those days were the toughest to be with him. We both had ambitions, we both had dreams, and all of a sudden we’re thrown into this world of being parents when we’ve barely figured out our relationship. And we talked about separation.

There were days where I’m like, Hey, we, let’s not even share the same bedroom anymore, which we did. And we slowly started coming back to it. It’s like, do we really want this relationship? And we both said, yeah, we’re both willing to do the work. And so it’s kind of like restoring an, an old vehicle. It’s like you, you see the potential and now we’re fully restored.

Like we’re just, we’re fine finalizing like the waxing on the outside, but the foundation was get our physical and mental health in check. It has nothing to do with the other person. Absolutely nothing. Remember the episode about triggers that I talked about? I got into CrossFit. I finally started eating well, hired dieticians, did all like the hormone testing, Dutch testing, like do it every year.

Did all this stuff to get this better. Now that I wake up feeling good almost every day going through perimenopause, another story. And Dan not only like feeling the best he’s ever felt, but looking the best. Like he looks so good right now. And I think that physical attraction to each other. Keeps each other excited.

Even today, when I was going to leave, I made sure he saw me. ’cause I put on like makeup and I’m wearing this cute little dress. He goes, no, why does everybody else get to see you like this? But are you going to dress up for Emily and not for me? Oh. And I’m like, I’ll wear this when I get home. Like chill out.

But just still being excited about each other. And I’m not judging, but I know there’s people that get into relationships, they get very comfortable and then they let the health side go. It’s like, shouldn’t we wanna always just try to be physically and emotionally and mentally attracted to our partner?

Like they’re the ones that should be there till the end of time your kids are gonna come and go. You know, family and friends come and go. So the biggest thing we did was started working on ourselves and what does work look like? It’s like finding a passion outside of the relationship. I took up drum lessons, got really into CrossFit, started a podcast, like did all these things that didn’t involve him.

Sometimes it did. He’s started doing Iron Mans and a bunch of different things like ultras and all these stupid things we have to run for like kilometers at a time.

Emily: Does he still do this? Yes, he does.

Renee: So it was also like we have ourselves outside of this, but also accepting those little things.

Like, I’m a goofy person, I’m uncoordinated. All these things I was embarrassed about myself were the things he loved. The things that upset him the most about me is that I’m notoriously late. So like even today when I messaged just like I was on time, ’cause I was 10 minutes earlier than I got lost, I was like, dammit.

I wanted to proof to her that I was on time, notoriously late. Like by 10 minutes, default, 10 minutes. It’s really stupid. And he’s like, why We’re figuring that out, but not letting the little things be the reason why we get so mad at each other. Like he chews with his mouth open. Oh my God. Like, it just drives me absolutely insane.

Who cares about those little things? Like, he puts things into perspective by saying, yo, I’m not out every Friday night getting drunk at the pub with my friends hidden on girls. I’m not doing that. So can I chew with my mouth open? I’m like, okay. Right. We hired a spiritual, a spiritual therapist. Her name is Stephanie.

She came in and did like individual past life regression stuff for myself, and we’d do these sessions individually and then we’d come together. Dan and myself and Stephanie, Dan and I meet once a week. Every Monday at lunchtime, we, we have an agenda. We talk about the same things. We go away every quarter for a couple’s retreat, like we date each other.

Last night we went on a, like a sunset cruise in his car after dinner, no kids, and we just blasted music and cruised around, top down. Went to Starbucks, got some work done like we were dating again, because it needs to be spicy and fun. You have to look forward to this person when you get home. During our dark days, I was like, I could hear his car coming in the driveway.

I was like, oh my God, he’s home. I don’t want him here now. I’m like, yes, he’s home. I can’t wait to hear about all the people he met and all the exciting stories he has. And I understand that every relationship is different. There’s like so many different circumstances from like family issues to like health issues and like all these things.

This is what works for us. And I know for a fact it doesn’t matter your circumstance. If you can fundamentally be healthy, mind, healthy body, you can face so much more in life. They say that when you are healthy, you have a million problems, but when you’re unhealthy, you have one. Just get that shit in order.

That’s it. Simple as that. Drink water, eat well, work out. Be with your kids, be with your family. Do the things that make you happy. Everything, everything gets easier.

Emily: Yeah, I, I can. I fully agree. I’ve also been with my husband for 12 years, so a long time and definitely been through the seasons where asleep in a different bedroom and young kids and we have a similar story of like weren’t together for very long and then had kids.

And gosh, when I look back at who we were then, it’s like completely different people who had no idea what we were, were doing. Yeah. But I think ultimately what you’re saying is work on yourself, like focus on yourself. Yes. But, and getting yourself, but people like, but what does that

Renee: mean? What does that mean?

Work on yourself? Well, exactly

Emily: what you said of like, I mean it means physically, emotionally, and mentally, like all those buckets. It it’s,

Renee: and that’s even like, peel that back a layer. People who don’t work out, they’ve done studies recently, I think this is on Huberman Labs. Even Dr. Stacy Sims talks about this, where they look at the people that have the longest like longevity and, and living a healthy life for the longest period of time are people who walk.

And you can do simple things like go for a 20 minute walk and do one minute intervals where you’re walking as fast as you possibly can and then strolling for two minutes. They also say, do a 10 or 20 minute walk after every meal. All this stuff keeps you healthy. You don’t need to have a six pack, you don’t need to be chiseled.

You don’t butt, you don’t have to CrossFit. We’re both CrossFitters. Yes. You don’t have to CrossFit. So when we look at the epitome of a physically healthy body, it’s not necessarily people that have visible abs. Totally. You can still be healthy without visible abs.

Emily: Absolutely. Well, and I think that the, I think that the first piece is the mental, because the, the beliefs that you carry and the thoughts that you have throughout the day are going to dictate all of your actions.

And so if you do not believe that you’re worthy to be healthy. And you are addicted to the emotions that you get from being overweight and like having that identity. It’s never gonna change. And I think that’s what I’ve, I’ve, I’ve learned is over the many years is like, I think the first priority is the mental and, and literally the beliefs and the thoughts.

Because when you can get that in order, I see it all the time. Like everything else changes. All of a sudden people kick addictions, they start working out, they start taking care of themselves because the belief that they carried about themselves changed and therefore the thoughts that they had. And I have it, I have this tattoo I’ve talked about in the podcast.

It’s an F-A-B-A-T and an A in my tattoo that says surrender. And it’s your feelings, your beliefs, your thoughts, and then your actions. And it’s a reminder every day Bruise there too. Yeah. That’s cross the rings. Cross every, I slipped through the rings. How you feel is gonna dictate your beliefs, which dictates your thoughts, which dictates your actions.

So how do you wanna feel? Like, who is that person you wanna be? And then I, I think the other things actually become so much easier, but a lot of times people do it backwards, right? Like that’s why they try to start the diet or try to start working out or try to make a change or kick an addiction. And it doesn’t happen because the addiction they have to, that emotion of how they feel in that identity is stronger than the desire they have to

Renee: change because it’s comfortable, because it’s familiar.

I actually recorded an episode about this the other day too, about identity. For me. It’s like I was told that as a six foot tall woman that I could never build a muscle because tall people have a really tough time, and sure enough, it’s probably tougher. So I just always assumed I’m just gonna be a tall, lanky string bean, a wet spaghetti.

Then I started CrossFit. I was like, oh, I can see why I can never build muscle until the day I went to work out at a CrossFit gym. And. The coach was explaining the workout and, and said something like, to a, he is like, Hey, good morning athletes. And I’m like, I’m not an athlete.

I’m

Renee: like, I’m here to work out.

And then I was like, wait a second. That is what CrossFit does is they treat every single person that walks through the door like an athlete. So then I started to visualize myself as a CrossFit athlete and I said to myself, I’m an athlete. Sure enough, I got stronger. I won in-house competitions. I podium at a competition a couple years ago with a partner.

We did partner competition, which was so cool. So when you identify as the outcome and not the process necessarily, you can visualize things a lot easier. So you can say you wanna lose 50 pounds, but maybe it’s actually not the 50 pounds you wanna lose. It’s the energy you wanna have to play with your kids on the floor or something like that.

So you like your, your identity is, I’m that active mom. Or if you wanna become a podcaster, you’re like, I’m a really good interviewer. So it’s all these things. You have to become the the identity before you actually are

a hundred percent,

Renee: because that’s what’s gonna get you there. And the other thing too is the momentum.

So when you first start like doing CrossFit or losing weight or podcasting, whatever it is, it’s, you don’t believe you can achieve it until you get those little, little hits, the little dopamine hits those little wins, and then it’s the momentum. You lose the first pound, you’re like, oh, wait a second. Then you lose another pound and then you’re like, this is actually quite sustainable.

And it could be with CrossFit, you’re like, oh, I can only like deadlift 150 pounds and then all of a sudden next week it’s 160. You’re like, wait, that’s way more than I weigh. Then it’s 180, then it’s 200. And before you know it, you’re the heaviest dead lifter in the gym for a woman in your category because you identified as the person that can be the the dead lifter.

Right.

Emily: And in, in those moments where you are choosing to make a big change, like becoming healthy, losing weight, it’s also how do you show up on the days you don’t want to. Mm-hmm. On the moments where maybe you were expecting to lose the couple of pounds and you didn’t, or you’re expecting to hit the deadlift weight and you didn’t, I think those are like when you’re right up against yourself.

Right. And your brain’s going, I told you, I told you you couldn’t do it. Yeah. I told you that you wouldn’t be able to be strong enough to deadlift 200 pounds. That’s like, you’ve got a choice. There’s like a microsecond in those moments that you’ve got a choice of either I’m gonna listen, I’m gonna choose to make that thought a fact, or I’m gonna say no, like I still am gonna choose

Renee: to be that person.

That’s when the, the voting in your head happens when the one side’s like, I vote for this. And the other side’s like, I vote for this. And they’re just going back and forth and it’s like, you can’t allow yourself to get to that moment of voting. You have to be Mel Robbins and go 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, go. Because people are waiting on you.

People are expecting you to be the best version of yourself. So 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, go. That’s how I get outta bed every morning. That’s how I get on my bike, or that’s how I start recording solo episodes. ’cause those are still hard for me after two years. Yeah,

Emily: totally. It’s like, yeah, just go do it. Do it messy. Do it, do it not fully knowing what you’re doing.

Like if you know, you’re, if you’re doing that, I told someone this the other day, I’m like, if every single day you’re uncomfortable right now in the season that she was in, in her business, I’m like, then you know you’re doing it right. Mm-hmm.

Because you should

Emily: be uncomfortable every day. I don’t think, you know, to that extreme for everybody every day, but to an extent, like, ’cause if you’re comfortable, you’re, you’re in the known

Yeah.

Emily: You’re doing the same thing. Yep. You’re not growing. And it was last week, I was, I’m trying to get a ring muscle up that’s this bruise. And I was in the gym and I missed it. I, I kept missing him. I’ve been practicing for a while and I almost got it and I missed it. And it was later on and someone’s like, are you, are you upset that you missed it?

And I was like, no. Like I’m a little bit better than the last time I did it. And that’s all I did. Did I do my best? Yeah, like I’m 0% upset that I missed it. Like, I don’t, I’m not like, you suck and you can’t do a ring muscle up, you know? Because I’m like, no, I showed up and I tried, I tried my best. That’s all I do.

And you’re not gonna give up and I’m not gonna give up and I’m gonna get it. Like I imagine myself doing it, and there will be the moment that it clicks and I get it. That was me

Renee: double unders.

Emily: Yeah. Oh yeah. Double unders took me forever

Renee: too. I went to the, my garage one summer every day. I’m like, I’m going to get this.

And I’m like, I wasn’t signed up to any course. I’m like, I, I know this, the, like, the logistics, the fundamentals of this. And one day it’s just like, boom. And then I became one of the best double under athletes in my gym that the coaches were asking me to explain to people how to do them.

Emily: I love it.

Renee: Yeah.

And I can like bang out a hundred and no problem.

Emily: Yeah. And, and I think in that too, it’s like you start to appreciate the process versus the outcome. Yeah. And that’s very much how I see a lot of things today is like. The reward is in the attainment.

Yeah.

Emily: It, it’s like in the process of learning. And that’s, that’s what I’m here for, is being fully present.

Am I at my best? I could be that day when I train, when I show up in the business, podcast, whatever. And I know that’s gonna improve. Like if it doesn’t, there’s a problem. But you have

Renee: to, because when you achieve the thing, right? ’cause you’ll get your ring muscle up, it’s gonna happen. And then you’re gonna be like, now what?

There wasn’t like F fifteens or whatever. Those airplanes didn’t fly overhead. There was no big lavish celebration. You got your muscle up, your ring muscle up. But that little moment of actually getting it was the result of all these attempts. So if you can’t enjoy all these attempts, then that’s gonna be meaningless.

Emily: Right? And the attempts are actually the. The point,

Renee: the rewards. Yeah. That is the point. And

Emily: well, and I think if it’s not, that’s when you get into the place where you keep chasing, you’re chasing the right, the next thing is because it’s never enough. But when you can appreciate the journey and the process and be present to it mm-hmm.

It, as we were talking about earlier, then you’re no longer chasing something outside of yourself. You’re being present to the current moment, which is so, so tough. Yeah. I mean, it, it takes intention and energy. Yeah. Like, even

Renee: like driving here got me thinking. I’m like, that’s just not around the corner in my, in my brain.

30 minutes is a long drive for me. It might be normal for you guys. And I said, no, this is great. It, it was meant to be, it was meant to be not in my backyard because I’m meant to drive this 30 minutes, which is when I had the conversation with myself for 25 minutes. So it’s like even every time you fail, like every, like even being sued for wrongful dismissal, sometimes I’m like, why did I have to go through that?

But I did, let me tell you that. The emotions in those moments. Now, when you’re faced something similar flat tire on the side of the highway, well they forgot to pick up your garbage one week, now you’re gonna have three weeks of stinky garbage. It’s like, it, it builds that foundation of resilience and grit where you can face the next challenge.

So I say like, I encourage you to be faced with these really crazy challenges sometimes. ’cause it builds that muscle to get better at the next thing and the next thing. So like the failed mu muscle up attempt, you’ll get it next time. Right. And they’ll be like, that was easy. And then you’re gonna get it every other time after that.

Emily: Yeah. But you couldn’t, if you don’t put in the reps

Renee: because you also dunno. And you, and then by the way, people like you probably make it look really easy.

Emily: Well, I don’t know. I don’t have it yet.

Renee: I can hold onto the rings and swing. That’s about it.

Emily: I did not have that gymnast background, but

Renee: yeah. Oh, there’s something there.

Yeah. Those gymnasts crazy. Yeah. Like little monkeys.

Emily: Yeah. So to summarize the, on the, on the relationship point. Yeah. Which is just such beautiful points. I think for me too, in the seasons that it was the darkest, it was easier to focus on why he was the problem. Mm. But the moment I decided I’m going to stop focusing on that and I’m gonna only focus on what I can control, which is myself.

Yeah. Everything changes and then it, it’s the daily micro moments like we were talking about with the kids. It’s the same thing with relationship. And I love how you guys have structure. We’ve done that. We could do it better, but like the weekly meetings and we do have a weekly date night and like those things are so important.

’cause it is, especially with young kids, it’s so easy to get into like roommate status Oh yeah. Where you’re just like managing schedules and like, Hey, how was your day? Okay, good. And it really does take choosing to make it a priority.

Renee: Yep. I was gonna say two. Oh my gosh. Where was my brain going with this?

Maybe we’ll come back to it. I don’t remember now. That’s okay. Yeah.

Emily: Yeah. We’ll just cut a little bit of that. Anything else? Let’s see. There was, there was, there was something was a point I said choosing to make it a priority. The little micro moment. No, it

Renee: was right around the relationship stuff too.

Emily: Working on yourself. I don’t know. And you guys do my brain, my brain. Just about like your means. Stop. Yeah, that’s fine. Yeah. Well, anything else you feel like we, we missed? What a beautiful conversation today.

Renee: Oh man. So regardless of the issue at hand, if it’s business, if it’s kids, if it’s your relationship, it always comes back to that work.

And also like not taking things personally. So for instance, I had a speaker for my event who was supposed to come up for. Also an extended mastermind afterwards, which was like the big sale to like get her up and be there. ’cause it’s a big ask to go to Kelowna, BC from Florida. And she got a really killer speaking opportunity the next day and can no longer join us for the mastermind.

And the initial reaction was like the manner that I was told is like, I wouldn’t have done it that way. Right. But she told me and I was like, I was kind of hurt and insulted and I was kind of ruminating walking around the hot tub, got into the hot tub and I said, but don’t take it personally. She’s still coming up, she’s still speaking and you’ve always wanted her to excel and now she’s probably speaking at like on a bigger stage.

Don’t take this personally, Renee. It has nothing to do with you knowing that. So when you’re like husband comes home or wife comes home or partner comes home and they’re just frazzled by something at work and they’re not treating you well, we always say Don’t treat me like that. How dare you. ’cause we’re taking it personally as opposed to being like, Hey babe, are you okay?

Can I, you know, get you a cold drink or something? So that moves you past that hurdle because when someone can feel seen and heard, poof. Even with kids. So the other thing that helped us with the relationship was not taking things personally.

Mm.

Renee: Like I will say this past Sunday, which was Mother’s Day, Dan’s at Peak Ironman training, he turns into a little asshole.

He had a massive run and bike that morning and then we coasted into the afternoon, which was Mother’s Day stuff. And he was not nice ’cause he was so depleted, had nothing to do with like caloric intake or anything. He was just like, this is what happens at Peak Ironman training. I remember this the last five or six times, done it.

And I just turned him like, you’re not being very nice. And I know it’s not me, it’s you, but it’s Mother’s Day, so like, put on a show for me please. And he’s like, you’re right, you’re right. I love that. As opposed to just being like, you’re such a jerk all day. How dare you.

Emily: Yeah. I mean you communicated, you still communicated and validated your own need of like, Hey, it’s Mother’s Day and I deserve to be treated.

Well just be nice. But also you didn’t turn it into like the passive aggressive or the like, let me get down on that level and like do it back to you. Which can be an easier choice to make. Right. It takes being an adult instead of going back to our child self sometimes. Well, and

Renee: then even just like those moments where when we start to build this resentment, we see this in friendships too.

But this resentment is basically you questioning somebody’s intention about something for the most part. And when I feel that resentment brewing towards Dan. Is the opportunity for either me to write this down to talk about on our agenda weekly, or if it’s a bigger issue, say something relatively close to the moment, and sometimes I get it wrong and that’s okay.

But also the moment you can then start really doubling down on that feeling of resentment and calling the person out on something or asking them about it. Most things can be just put to bed as opposed to letting it brew. And that’s why we have those weekly meetings so we can talk about issues and just say, Hey, listen, this thing you did last week, or the way you talked to your team that way, I don’t like that.

You shouldn’t do that. Then they can say, well, you don’t know the story, but so-and-so did this. And then it’s like, oh God. It’s the clarity communication. Right? Communication.

Emily: Communication. Communication. Clear communication.

Yeah,

Emily: I, I will oftentimes be like, the story I’m telling myself is this, yes. Like, I know this is probably not reality, but this is what I’m telling myself so that it can be clarified while also still validated.

Renee: Yeah. Tony Robbins says, my hallucination is, and then you say. My hallucination is that, ’cause we went for Mother’s Day, I wanted to go see Baby Goats. I don’t know why. I wanted to go see goats. And there’s like this brewery there you can play with goats. There’s like 75 of them. And I was like, oh my God.

Nobody in my family wanted to go, nobody. And I was like, it’s Mother’s Day. You’re coming. So in those moments I was like, Hey Dan, my hallucination is is that you don’t wanna be on this farm petting goats. He’s like, you’re right, but I’m here for you. And I’m like, but I’m having so much fun. We got through it.

So good. Yeah.

Emily: I love it. Yeah. Well thank you so much for the conversation today. Where can everybody find the best? Your podcast? Yeah, your event coming up

Renee: Instagram, I share everything. Renee Warren. My event is the Pink Skirt Project and you can go to the pink skirt project.com and my podcast is into the Wild.

Emily: Yay. And highly recommend all of it. I’ve loved the pink skirt vibes. I saw the picture of you in the swing too with the pink skirt behind you. So awesome. Creating a movement.

Renee: I hope so. You are.

Emily: Claim that

Renee: I am. Tell that I am the woman you who is creating a movement. I’ve created a movement. That’s it.

Exactly.

Emily: Thank you so much for being on the show. Yeah, thanks for having me. Yay. That was awesome.

So fun. It went so fast.