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She thought she’d spend six months of maternity leave “relaxing and recording meditations.” Instead, she discovered that becoming a mother triggers the biggest brain transformation since adolescence—and it completely changed how she runs her business.

Chelsey Scaffidi built meditation studios while working as a corporate lawyer, but felt like she was constantly pushing and controlling her way to success–until motherhood forced her to learn the art of surrender and flow. 

But here’s what makes this different: she didn’t abandon her drive—she learned to harmonize both energies to create a business and life that actually works, which became the foundation for her bestselling book “The Mother Year.”

In this raw conversation, Chelsey reveals her unconventional self-therapy method that turned into a bestselling book, how she rejected traditional business advice to create a strategy that actually works for her whole life, and the scientific truth about what’s really happening to your brain for two full years after having a baby (and how to use that to transform your business).

Key Takeaways:

• Why your scattered “mom brain” is actually rewiring for peak efficiency—and how to work WITH it instead of against it
• The 2-minute daily practice that turned into a bestselling book (and how it can transform your self-talk)
• Why feeling like you don’t fit the mold might be exactly what makes you unstoppable in business

This isn’t about choosing between ambition and motherhood—it’s about creating harmony between both and understanding the profound transformation you’re actually going through.

More ways Embodied Marketing can support you:

If you’re ready to hand off your entire marketing strategy (from funnels to ads to copy) and finally get the expert team you can trust, apply here and let’s talk: helpmystrategy.com

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READ THE EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Emily Hirsh: All right. Welcome to the show. I am so excited to have you. Oh, thank you. I’m so excited to be here. Yeah, in person. So fun. It is. And this is a fun one ’cause we don’t know each other super well. Yeah. We have mutual friends and so I’m excited to get to know you better and hear about your story.

Chelsey Scaffidi: Me too.

Emily Hirsh: Let’s start with your story and your background of entrepreneurship and wherever you feel like is relevant to kind of dive in.

Chelsey Scaffidi: Yeah. I’m like, should I start at the beginning? I feel like the entrepreneur side of me really started, so I guess to back up, I’m a lawyer and in law school and law firm life, all of that felt very masculine and I was kind of going through those motions of yeah, just thought what I thought I kinda had to do, which was like continue forward in my career and there was a point where I was at a law firm and really feeling unfulfilled from a spiritual, soulful place.

And so I. Left law firm life where I was doing business in finance law and went in house to a private foundation. And that was kind of the first I’d say like very intentional choice point of calling in more of this like flow, more of like a feminine energy of just being able to be more expressive and not so rigid.

But even then I was still, I am still an in-house lawyer now. I’ve been working for entities that do climate for the last climate and human rights and education for the last 10 years. But there’s still a masculine energy of being in law and so. Probably two years before I had my first baby. I was living in la I was working remotely and I just was like feeling like I wanted something else and I took a meditation teacher training.

I was already a yoga teacher. And I realized in teaching yoga that what I liked the most was the beginning and the end where you’re like helping people drop in and then at the end when you’re, you know, queuing them into savasana and just like really feeling that like surrender. And so I took a meditation teacher training and started leading meditations and eventually opened like probably not that long after, probably a year after, opened a meditation studio in la.

Wow. And I was doing that on the side. So I was like, it, it was like this, honestly, it was kind of harmonious of like feeling, you know, like for a certain part of my day I was like the lawyer advising. Being a little more in that masculine energy. And then I was, you know, in the early afternoon to evening, I was going to the meditation studio and we had, it was called Rooted Beings.

Yeah. And it just felt really good. It felt like, okay, these are, this is like another side of me that feels awakened and alive. And then so we launched that. The la the one in Manhattan Beach specifically was doing well. And the company I, or the foundation I was working for at the time was based in Chicago and they wanted me to come back to Chicago from LA once my husband graduated from, he was doing an executive MBA program at USC.

And so we came back to Chicago right before the pandemic and we had actually opened up. A Chicago popup of the meditation studio. So we had two locations, one in LA and one in Chicago. So you kept the LA

Emily Hirsh: one going when you moved? Kept the LA one.

Chelsey Scaffidi: Mm-hmm. I had a co-founder, one of my best friends, and she was living in LA so she was kind of running LA and I was running Chicago and then the pandemic happened and everything shut down.

And lucky for us, one of the really smart business decisions that we made was instead of just like going full on out when we opened the studios, we really wanted to see kind of like what this felt like, what, what it could look like. And so we actually were subleasing from yoga studios that for whatever reason, had a desire to have a sublease.

And so when the pandemic hit. It was really easy for us to get outta the subleases. And so we moved everything online and started doing teacher trainings and leading online meditations. And so it was kind of easy to move over to this other modality. And then I got pregnant. And I feel like this is like really where a lot of my story starts because I had no idea what to expect in pregnancy.

I was kind of the first of my friends to get pregnant. And I remember knowing that I had six months maternity leave and thinking, what am I gonna do with this six months off? Like clearly just so delusional about what this first chapter looked like. I was, I wasn’t really resonating with a lot of the pregnancy meditations.

And so I was recording meditations while I was pregnant and I was like, when I have this baby and have this six months off, which, you know what a, what a privilege to have maternity leave. That’s six months. It’s crazy. Crazy to say that. That’s a privilege ’cause. It really should just be a given. But I thought I was gonna record meditations and just really like, relax, relax your baby.

Yeah. I was like, I had never had time off. I had gone right from, you know, undergrad to law school to law firm, life to in-house life. I was like, oh my gosh, I’m gonna really get to just be, and then I had a baby and,

Emily Hirsh: and nothing can prepare you for that first one and

Chelsey Scaffidi: no, nothing can prepare you. But, but it really changed a lot.

And I, I think the biggest, if I could, I guess, kind of sum up what it ended up doing to me was really allowing me to get in touch with my, like feminine flowy, just more attuned surrender side. Because I was so used to like, for lack of a better term, like muscling my way through things, you know, like I, if I could research it and I could plan it out.

You know that’s, that was kinda my mo. And then in motherhood. You can’t really do that as much.

Emily Hirsh: Yeah. So would, would you say that you were more naturally like masculine energy before? Yeah. Yeah. I have so many. You know, I think female entrepreneurs really relate to that. Mm-hmm. Because like that natural entrepreneurship energy Yeah.

Is usually very masculine. Me too, like very masculine energy. So I’d love to dig more into that. I get a lot of people who ask me, like, how do I tap more into the feminine energy? What does that mean? You know? And it’s because it’s not the masculine, there’s not like steps, right? Yeah. There’s not like, okay, step one, do this.

And for me it’s been like a couple, like two years that I really started to even understand what that meant. Like the masculine and the feminine energy and, and how to have both exist. And then how to also know that the masculine energy is, is a strength of mine, right? Mm-hmm. It’s created a lot of success.

It’s not bad, but how to have more of that flow in business, especially as a female entrepreneur. So I’d love, I’d love to hear more and dig deeper into that. ’cause that’s very relevant for my audience. Yeah. In how to tap into that energy more and also what it even means.

Chelsey Scaffidi: Yeah. I mean, I think one, one thing as you were just talking that kind of came to me is for a long time I felt.

Like before motherhood, I would’ve said, I felt like, you know, that like three little bears story where like one bed is too hard and one bed’s too soft. Like for a long time, I would feel like when I was with my lawyer community, that I was like too soft for them. Like I didn’t quite fit in to that mold. I remember teaching meditations like I was in, I was a, I, you know, in-house lawyer at a foundation and during the pandemic a lot of people were struggling with so much, right?

And so they wanted someone to do meditations and they were gonna hire someone. And I was like, no, I can do this. And I remember them being like, but you’re, but you’re the lawyer. Like, how are you gonna hold that space for people? You know? Like, how is that gonna interfere with your relationship with staff?

And ultimately they got on board and it really opened my relationship with staff because I sat in a room with them and led meditations and oftentimes like people were uncomfortable or emotional or. They would come and share things with me that they would never have shared if, it’s almost like when I let my kinda like feminine energy flow state show they felt more comfortable.

And so I would see that as a good thing. I think they were more apt to come talk to me actually about business related stuff because we had connected on a different level, but then I was living in LA and I would go to a lot of these events, these wellness events and community things and I almost felt like too masculine for them because, you know, as soon as I said I was a lawyer, I don’t know, it just felt like there was like, they put some distance of like, oh, you’re kind of that type type A, which surprisingly, I’m really not Type A, I’m like a type A B, I’m like the person who’s like always laughs on a flight.

Like I, I definitely do not have the like stereotypical I. Lawyer energy. And so yeah, for a long time I felt like I didn’t fit in anywhere and I really struggled with that. And then when motherhood came along, I really struggled. ’cause I was even more, I feel like that was really encouraging me to go deeper into the, the feminine.

And, but you do need both, you know? And so what I’ve, what I’ve really come to honor and realize and what I’m always doing the work on is like how to find harmony between those two. It’s not just, I don’t know if like put shade on one or the other. Like it’s, it’s actually the strength and the ability to research and the ability to plan and think ahead is a strength.

But then the ability to let things flow and to surrender and be creative. And I think for my business, that’s what I was missing. I felt like, I mean, lawyers will say like, oh, there’s creativity in the law of like how you draft things or how you word things, but that never felt. Like a satisfactory creative outlet and my business in the meditation space.

And eventually my book and motherhood really felt like the time to be creative. Like, I remember even just like in, in early motherhood or in late pregnancy, like drawing again and like painting again, like things that I hadn’t done in a really long time. Like I hadn’t let myself kind of feel that. And so I would say the way that I tap back into it now is actually just having a lot of awareness about it because when I’m, when I’m into too in my masculine too in my feminine, it does also doesn’t work.

I think a good example of this, like living right now in my life is. I wrote a book that came out in March and my masculine side, like working with my publisher was like, okay, we’re doing, we need to do a book tour. We need to, you know, there’s all these boxes we have to check and this could go on for years.

I mean, there are so many things to do with the book. And I like saw the options, saw all of the plans, and then really tuned in. It was like, what feels good for me in this season of life? And I went back to them and asked for kind of what I wanted, which was a book tour, that’s mom style. So it’s one city a month primarily.

And I agreed to do, you know, I essentially said I was gonna do it for six months and then I’m gonna kind of stop touring and reevaluate. But like old me would’ve done like a two year book tour and just been like on the go without any signs of slowing down. And knew me is like, okay, I understand there’s sprints, but then I have to leave space.

In between.

Emily Hirsh: Yeah. It’s such a it, for me, the last few years, it’s like going from, I was like heavy in my masculine and that still is this strength of mine for sure. Mm-hmm. I’m like, CrossFitter, you know? Yeah. But been so powerful to, to lean into that intuition and like allow that creativity and really, I think a, a lot of it is too, like trusting the unknown and the, the surrender piece of it, which when you’re heavy in your masculine, you’ve got the, like, I wanna control everything, kind of like push through and make it happen.

Mm-hmm. And like, operate from that place. And then it’s like, that only gets you so far and I feel like it’s inevitable, especially as a female, right? Mm-hmm. ’cause we’re wired differently. You hit a point where it’s like, okay, I can’t actually keep operating this way. Mm-hmm. Like, that’s where the burnout comes in and it, there, there’s that misalignment.

So right now when you’re trying to have that balance between the two, you have awareness on it. Is there things that you do that it’s like, okay, I’m gonna intentionally do this. To allow more like of my feminine energy or to, to let myself be in that space. I actually wanna

Chelsey Scaffidi: pull the thread on something that you just said.

’cause I think this ties into the answer to this, which is that for a long time I thought, and even in early motherhood, I remember having this conversation with my husband that if I didn’t do it, it wasn’t gonna happen. Like if I didn’t do something, it wasn’t gonna get done or it wasn’t gonna matriculate into something.

And so that put a lot of pressure on me, like, if I don’t do, nothing will happen. And that the more intuitive feminine side of this says that there is a, you know, there God is working for you and there are things that actually happen better and more aligned with you when you don’t do anything. And the not doing

Emily Hirsh: so hard is really hard, so hard to comprehend that.

Yeah. Yeah.

Chelsey Scaffidi: And so, but I, I. I stop myself and ask that a lot. I’m like, am I doing to create because it feels good or am I doing to create, because I feel like if I don’t, that lack mentality is really like creeping up in my mind. And that’s, that’s, I find myself there a lot and having to kind of manually reprogram myself through meditation, through breath work, through journaling.

I voice out a lot. That’s like my, I voice out to myself in the bath all the time. And it’s actually really fun because for a long time I went to therapy sessions and I love therapy, but I, I actually realized like how often I would come to the answer myself,

Emily Hirsh: right? ’cause we do know,

Chelsey Scaffidi: right? You do. And like as you’re, as you’re talking it out loud in a voice note, there’s an awareness to it.

’cause you can hear it. It’s like not just all. Sitting in, in your mind, like swirling around. And so I, I feel like I’ve been able to have a lot of breakthroughs, like actually talking to myself. Do you listen to it

Emily Hirsh: back or you just talk and then you get the clarity?

Chelsey Scaffidi: I would say eight times outta 10. I’m just talking to get the clarity.

But every so often I’ll go back and listen to it to certain ones when I know I was having a hard time just for hindsight, you know, just to be like, okay, how did that ended up turning out? And actually that’s the voice noting is a big part of my current, of the book that I wrote. So going back to, that first six months of having a baby, when I thought I was gonna just hang out and record meditations. Once I realized I couldn’t do that, I didn’t even have time to really like pick up a pen and journal. ’cause you have like a baby in one hand or you’re nursing in the other. I started voice sewing myself at night just because I wanted to remember there was so much that was happening like so quickly.

And so I would voice note at night just about what was happening in the day and kind of what made the day worth it or how I was feeling about certain things. And it was really short. It was like a two minute voice note, less than at night. And my husband would sometimes be in the bathroom and he would come out and say like, I didn’t realize that happened.

You know, he was back to work. And so this became like a nightly ritual. He actually like moonlighted on a couple of ’em where he would chime in, you know, on something that had happened on the voice note. And now we do this actually for the kids’ birthdays. We create a voice note for them on their birthdays every year from us that we wanna give to them.

Emily Hirsh: I love that idea. And

Chelsey Scaffidi: yeah, just like, I would love to hear my parents’ voice Yeah. When I was a baby. You know, ’cause I’m sure it’s changed and just like their inflections and what they noticed about me at that age. Yeah. But, so I had a whole 365 voice notes after my first son’s when he turned a year.

And I listened back to them and was gonna make like a keepsake book for us. And I listened back to those voice notes and was like, honestly kind of heartbroken, like listening back to them. I was just so hard on myself. Like I couldn’t, like, I remember not being able to figure out. Things like sleep and feeding and like, what was I doing wrong and maybe I needed to try something else.

And at the end of the day, I just needed to surrender. Like my baby was learning and growing and, you know, growing teeth and learning to be out in the world. And it was nothing that I was like doing wrong. And there were a couple times listening back to those voice notes where I had a really strong intuitive ping about things, and I kind of outsourced my power to various people.

And looking back on it, I was like, I knew. And so listening back to the voice notes, I felt like I wanted to essentially talk to that version. And so the book is, is that it’s like day by day, daily devotional 365 day daily devotional on what I would’ve said to myself in those days to just get me through like the words I needed to hear.

That’s amazing. Made me feel,

Emily Hirsh: wow, I can’t, like I bet it was just an incredible experience. Also listening back to it. I mean yeah. Heartbreaking to hear it, but just to have that ’cause you think you’re gonna remember

mm-hmm. You

Emily Hirsh: know, in those moments. And it’s like, even with my kids, like, you think you’re gonna remember the thing, the little things they say or the, the little moments.

Mm-hmm. You unfortunately, you don’t remember all those details, so just documenting it like that is so cool. I’m gonna start doing that for my kids’ birthdays. I love that idea. That’s so fun.

Chelsey Scaffidi: Yeah. It, it, it’s become like, you know, I think there’s a lot of craziness with technology, but I feel like that’s become a way of like using it.

For good. You know, you probably

Emily Hirsh: could use AI and turned that into a full like summary or something now. Yeah. Really quickly. Definitely. Right? That’s like very efficient. Yeah. Yeah. So now you still do it in the bath, like, gimme an example of like what you would process in the bath that helps you at night with the voice notes that someone could take as like a piece of advice they could implement.

So the

Chelsey Scaffidi: last one I did recently was, so I’m doing this book tour, which is, you know, one city a month. So I’m not away for that long. But I’ve done four cities. I had two left and a couple weeks ago I was on a book tour. I was in Miami for a couple days and I had been, my husband and I had actually gotten away.

We had a wedding in Spain and so. My mom and his mom, they fly in together and watch the two boys. Cute. Just, they’re so sweet. They call them, well they’re Nona and Mimi and when they, when they’re together, they call themselves the Nomis. They’re so cute. They like love each other and being together and they really like compliment each other.

Well,

Emily Hirsh: oh, that’s a dream.

Chelsey Scaffidi: Such a dream. Like at first when we introduced our parents we’re like, how’s this gonna go? ’cause they’re very different, but it’s almost like a total yin and yang where like they, each of their strengths is the other one’s like not strength. And then so they kind of complete each other really well.

Yeah, and they, I, my boys just love it. But in the bath I was feeling really guilty. I was just like, this is, you know, five or six days of being away from my kids and then coming back and going on this book tour in Miami and I could just hear the like mean inner monologue of like, what does that say about me?

You know, like I am running this book tour about motherhood. And I’m not being present enough for my boys. And as I was talking it out in the bath about this, like guilt I was having, like, a couple things ended up coming to light and I was like, you know, when I came home from the, on that trip, the noes were like on cloud nine because they had had all these experiences with my boys.

If my husband and I were home, they would not have had like my oldest who’s four and a half when I’m home, like he wants me to sleep with him. But when I was gone, he slept like alternated with each grandma and he’s so sweet in the morning he like wakes up and talks about his dreams and like he, you have this whole dialogue with him, this like really personal interconnection with him and you know, just little things like that.

Like when I, when I came home, I saw that they had been able to rely on the Nomis for however many days and their connection was deepened and it brought me back to these memories of my grandparents when my parents used to go on these short vacations, like the only times I really remember with my grandparents are when my parents weren’t there because my grandparents were kind of like the main characters for them.

And I’m like, how amazing is it? And that’s what came through in the Voice now is how amazing is it that I’m allowing my kids to make these memories of people who love them. So deeply it makes me emotional how much the, their grandmas and grandpas like just deeply love them. And so it was kind of a gift.

Instead of thinking of it as like a shameful thing that I did to my kids, it’s like, no, actually I allowed people into their lives who love them. And it also made me realize that mom guilt is just like a different flavor of guilt. Like before kids, when I felt guilty, it was because I like ate something I shouldn’t, or did something or said something I shouldn’t, or like stopped work early to whatever it was, which was like, okay, that was my conscious saying, like, ugh, I’m not sure if that was the right call.

But for mom guilt, it’s like I wasn’t doing anything bad. I was doing something that really lit me up. I was on tour meeting with mothers about the book, or I was in Spain at a friend’s wedding. Like I wasn’t doing anything like quote unquote bad, but this guilt was creeping up and it’s just kinda like a mean voice telling you that you’re not.

Doing a good enough job.

Emily Hirsh: Yeah.

Chelsey Scaffidi: So

Emily Hirsh: yeah. Mom guilt processed all that in the back. Yeah. Mom guilt. Mom guilt is, yeah. So real. So you use the, the, you just like have an honest conversation basically. Mm-hmm. In the voice note, and then it usually eventually gets you to like a realization or

Chelsey Scaffidi: Yeah.

Emily Hirsh: Processing it.

Chelsey Scaffidi: Yeah. And I realize often as I’m processing it, like how often I’d actually had that same conversation in my mind. And I think as a lawyer, like people always say that like lawyers like to argue and I’m, I’m not a litigator, I’ve never been interested in being a litigator. That was not never my calling.

So arguing I wouldn’t say is my strength. I don’t think it’s like if you’re a lawyer, you like to argue, but I do like to see all angles. Like I love understanding the other side because that allows me to respond better, to understand like, yeah. Just all sides of the argument. And so I think a lot of what happens.

In those voice, what I’m processing is to say like, okay, this is true, but also like, what’s the other side of the story that I’m not hearing or seeing? And in my mind it just loops. But when you’re journaling it or when you’re speaking it out loud, you’re bringing awareness to it. And I think it then allows you to just like see the whole picture.

Whereas like I think our default is to let the one that’s like the loudest, which often tends to be the meanest or like the most negative, it’s so much easier to be harder on ourselves than it is to be like really kind to ourselves. So I think that takes work.

Emily Hirsh: Yeah. And what a great practice to just do that because how much of our stories in our mind we think is reality and it’s absolutely not, you know?

Yeah. And we like operate based off of. Oh, this is reality. This is almost like a fact. Mm-hmm. Then when you do look at it from that perspective of like, let’s consider the other side and let’s like play the different scenarios, you’ll usually get to a different, like awareness of it. Right. So I love that.

Chelsey Scaffidi: Yeah. And I think that’s what you end up doing in therapy, right? Is there’s just someone else to point out like, well, have you thought about it this way? And I love that, that they get to help facilitate that. And there’s definitely been times where I, I can’t see the other side. I really need someone to help me Right.

Think through this. And then there’s been times where like, I do know the answer. I’m just like choosing the wrong story.

Emily Hirsh: Let’s dive a little bit into the mom guilt for a second. ’cause that, before you even said that, that was what you were struggling with. I was gonna ask you when you travel, like if you struggle with that, with, with your kids.

’cause I know I do like, yeah. Mom, guilt. It’s hard. It’s like you can’t, in my mind and the expectation I sometimes put on myself, you can’t win.

Chelsey Scaffidi: Mm-hmm.

Emily Hirsh: It’s like, unless I was. A stay at home mom, which is not the right thing for me. And I know that there’s always like this judgment that I put on myself of like analyzing.

Mm-hmm. And, and I’ve gotten better. But I used to be like, okay, how many hours did I spend with my kids today? And like, was that enough? Mm-hmm. You know, hours or, you know. And it is, there’s sometimes I do catch myself when I’m like, shoot, I should have been more present. Like I was caught up in a work fire or something happening.

And it’s, it can be rough. Like you really do beat yourself up for that. And I think we’re so wired as moms to have, like, we want obviously to be the best for our kids and we love them so deeply and so much that I think that’s some of the like most challenging guilt that I experience is the mom guilt for sure.

And it, I think it’s. Especially challenging when you have like a dream that you’re pursuing outside of motherhood as well. Mm-hmm. And then it’s like you’ve got that voice in the back of your head of like, is it, am I doing too much? I, I feel, I feel good about pursuing my business. And like, I never have like a question because I know I would not be a good stay-at-home mom, but then I am, I’m always like, is it too much?

I’m always analyzing, right? Mm-hmm. Like the hours I’m with my kids and you know, what are they gonna say when they’re older? Was I present enough and Right. Yeah. It’s like, it’s definitely a challenge.

Chelsey Scaffidi: Yeah. No, I struggle with that too. And I, the reframe that I like to often go back to is my mom was not a stay at home mom.

She was a teacher and, you know, I, I, she was an amazing teacher. She was a kindergarten, first grade, kindergarten, most of her career. She was first grade. And there was a period where as I got a little bit older, she didn’t have to work. Like my dad had reached a certain level where she definitely didn’t have to work.

And I remember her saying that she wouldn’t give it up because she was teaching people how to read. And she was like, that is the most important skill. And she was really good at she was kind of known for like, being the teacher that could pull kids who were kind of struggling or behind. She just had this really like, kind way of bringing them along.

And so she felt so tied to this purpose and I really loved that about her. I admired that about her. And so, you know, the antidote to my mom, guilt in doing some of these things is like, I do think it’s good for your kids to see you. Lit up about something and feeling really impactful outside of, you know, just the, just the four walls of your home.

And I, I think, you know, I have so much respect for stay at home, others because I, I, I do that for periods of time and I know that also is not the right path for me. And so I’m always trying to find harmony in, you know, the like giving of myself and the taking of myself. And I don’t know if there’s ever gonna be a perfect balance, but I do know that I’m aware enough when I feel off kilted.

So like, for example, I went to LA this week for the book tour, and I was gone for a couple days. I was gone for like 36 hours. But I was counting it in terms of like how many nights I missed bedtime, which was like not a very kind reframe. I was like, oh, I’m gonna miss two and a half. But I got home and I could feel that I just was really missing them like it was.

Not as much about like, do they know if I missed Monday and Tuesday bedtime? ’cause my husband is amazing and did that well. It was about like, I just missed them. So yesterday I intentionally like took my oldest and we just did like a little date, a little play date with just him and I, and it was a couple hours and it was just so fulfilling.

Like, okay, like the guilt again, if you go back to regular guilt, the guilt is like supposed to serve a purpose. And a lot of mom guilt doesn’t serve a purpose. I think there’s a, there’s like a piece of it that is good to be aware of. It’s like, okay, I felt like I was distant, so I’m gonna have this like really intentional present time where I’m with my son and he remembers and I, I think that’s what he’s gonna remember from this week.

He’s not gonna remember that I missed two bedtimes. Totally. He’s gonna remember that we had this like, amazing play date and he was, you know, diving for these gems that he is obsessed with and like making these really sweet memories, I think is like a healthy way of. Utilizing like our body’s natural inclination and response system to, to do something good instead of just beating ourselves up about it.

Because I truly believe that the best things that we can do for ourselves as mothers is to care for ourselves. And that can look a lot of different ways for me. It sounds like for you, like caring for myself is watering these other projects that I feel really good about.

Emily Hirsh: Yeah. And what I’m, what I’m hearing too is, is like the guilt can serve a purpose, but instead of creating a story from it, putting awareness on it and then checking in with, okay, is this coming from a place of I’d like some quality time with my kids because I’ve maybe not had as much this week?

Or is it coming from a place of just judgment and that mean voice? Yeah. Versus you know, I feel the guilt that means I’m a bad mom. Right, right. Like you create that story. And so I think that what you’re saying is beautiful and in that the. The magic is in that awareness. Mm-hmm. Which is this case with so many things, right?

Yeah. Like the awareness, you put your spotlight on it and then you’re able to see it for what it is versus the stories we create. Yeah. So, and then, you know, kids, I totally agree. Like they just want presence, even if it’s for like presence, not like presence gifted, but you to be present, even if it’s like 30 minutes of pure presence with them.

Yeah. Compared to like three hours of somewhat, you know? Mm-hmm. Presence. Like they just remember that. Yeah. So I try to remember that too, of like, if I had a week that I was gone, more busy, more like, what can I do to make it a special dinner or Right. Take ’em out on a date one-on-one. And you’re right.

That’s what they’re gonna remember.

Chelsey Scaffidi: Yeah. And I mean, so I work from home and my kids are home a lot of the day. And they like, they’ll often come up to me, and this is like one thing that works for me. And I’m not saying this has to work for everyone, but for me, I’ve kind of made this decision that I.

If like, I’m working and they come up to me and they want to sit on my lap or like say hi or whatever it, if I’m not on a call, or actually sometimes when I am on a call, but I just go off video, like I almost never say no to that. And they don’t usually wanna stay for very long. Like, they just wanna come up and like cuddle for 30 seconds and then they’re like on their way.

And for me, that feels really good that I, I’m not telling them no a lot when it comes to my time. Like if there’s any way, same thing with like playing, like, I was getting ready this morning and I was like worried about being late and my son was like, let’s play cars. And we played for three minutes and then he was like, okay, I am hungry.

I’m gonna go to snack with dad. But I, I do think it’s like this subtle moments of him remembering that. You know, I did prioritize him in those ways. Has is like a small way of, you know, making me feel better. And I also think often when I’m in these spirals of like, what would a friend say? Because like if you told me the instances where you felt mom guilt, like I would probably very clearly see it as like, you’re an amazing mom, you’re doing so much and I could help, you know, kind of turn that around.

And we often do that for our friends and we don’t do it for ourselves. And in preparing for the book, I had a book doula early on and, and she was a credible and she said, you know, I, why are you writing this book? Like, who is it for? And I was like, this is really for women in their first year of motherhood or in like a hard season of motherhood.

And she’s like, okay, you need to interview your reader. So figure out who that is, find a friend and go have a conversation. And I had a conversation with one friend and it was. So nourishing to like, hear her story and to be able to almost like say the things that like, ’cause you can see things so clearly when it’s not you, you know?

Emily Hirsh: Yeah.

Chelsey Scaffidi: And after that I was like, determined to interview a hundred women, which I did over the last two and a half years. And the amount of times that like, mom guilt came up or they felt like they weren’t doing enough, like my jaw was to the floor. Yeah. Of, I’m like, you’re doing so much. Like you’re, you know, just moms who were like, I, I, you know, I don’t wanna let my baby like nap on anyone else.

Like, I need to, there’s a lot of that sentiment of like, don’t miss a moment, don’t blink. Don’t I know, you know, you’re not gonna, all of a sudden there time goes fast. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s like, time doesn’t actually have to move fast. Time can actually move really slow when you want it to. You know, it’s like you can spend a

Emily Hirsh: full weekend with the kids with nothing to do and it’ll feel like 500 hours.

Yes. Like

Chelsey Scaffidi: I, when I had my son, my first son, we were living in Chicago and we were there for like a winter where you were inside all day. And those moments I remember very vividly moving, like really, really slow. And so I think it’s like these cliches to get thrown around that trip people up. And then it’s like, again, like why are you showing up in a certain way?

Is it because like you have the time and it feels really good? Like I love that. Yes. Contact nap, I do that all the time. But if, if you’re doing it because you are worried that like, you know, you’re not doing enough or you’re not being a good enough mom or.

Emily Hirsh: Like, miss a moment or miss a nap. Yeah. Yeah. Why do you think, do you like mom?

Guilt has for sure heightened, I feel like, like, I don’t think like my grandma felt this much. Mm-hmm. Mom guilt, you know? Yeah. Do you think it’s social media and like society? Why, why is it such high pressure now on us?

Chelsey Scaffidi: There’s a name for this. That’s, I, I’m not, it’s not coming to mind right now. It’ll come to me where like, there’s studies now that have shown this, apparently, like in the past, every generation has done better than the generation before them.

Mm. And that’s declining. It’s not intensive parenting. Mm-hmm. Sort. It’s, I think and there’s this idea floating around that like, again, masculine energy, if you don’t do, your child won’t. Fill in the blank, your child won’t be smart, successful, well-rounded, whatever the thing is. And so it puts a, it puts even more pressure on mothers who are primarily the primary caregiver to do all the things that they can think of to make their kid be the way that they want them to be and or to give them every opportunity.

And that has been increasing, like speci, specifically in our generation, A feeling like, you know, it’s all on us. And that’s so not true. Like your, your kids are gonna, again, the feminine side, the intuitive side is like, my kid is gonna learn that thing. When they’re supposed to learn that thing. They’re going to be really inclined to, you know, like sports or like music or, you know, whatever their gifts are will show themselves.

Instead of this feeling of like, if I don’t enroll my kid in Jiujitsu before he is three, like he’s not gonna be. X, you know? Right. So I think there is I think social media doesn’t make it any better. I I also think that you know, for a long time there was like the paradox of like, men were the primary caregivers or the primary providers.

And then there was this whole era where like, women, you know, were entering were like, that was what you were striving for, was to be like a man. Like, I remember being at the law firm and, you know, feeling so aware that all the partners in the business and finance group were all men other than one. And it was like this really, like, there was a big separation between men and women.

And I was always trying to get to this place where I was like on parody. And when I had my son, I. I was working with this, he was like, still is one of my closest friends. Same age same year out of law school. We had same position, but I took six months of maternity leave, seven months of maternity leave.

And I remember feeling that like, I’m not gonna be able to keep up with him because he’s not taking that same time. And so eventually now, four and a half years later, like what I’m really comfortable with is like, I don’t actually need to be on the same, that same timeline. I think there’s like a growing sentiment in our culture of like, do we really need to do it all?

Because it’s actually not possible. Like there are two finite resources in life and that is time and energy. So it’s not possible for me to be working 60 hours a week and also home with my kids. Whatever, you know, a hundred hours a week or whatever, it’s like the math doesn’t add up. So it is like making conscious choices of what feels right.

And I think that that’s something that we’re like all grappling with right now. Because for a long time it was just catching up to men and being the providers and now it’s like, okay, but there’s so many differences between men and women, particularly in the parenting arena. Absolutely. Yeah. Although I think that’s changing too.

Like I’m so grateful to be in this point in time. Like my husband is definitely 50 50, I would say, on the weeks that I’m going on these book tours or whatnot, or traveling for work. He’s 60 40, he’s like, he takes on more and I think I see more and more.

Emily Hirsh: Yeah. Like that. My husband’s the same way. I mean, I’m, I am the breadwinner, and he works too, and we have a full-time nanny, but like, he cooks dinner every night.

Mm-hmm. I travel and he’s full, you know, take the kids to school, take ’em to the sports. Mm-hmm. And so I agree that that is shifting and Yeah. And there, there’s like, I believe you can have it all. I do too, but I don’t think you can do it all. And I think also everybody’s definition of having it all is different.

Right. To some women being a, having a season of being a full-time stay-at-home mom. Like I have friends that they wanna do that. Yeah. They, you know, they’re business owners and they wanna do way less business work five hours a week and just be with your kids. Right. You know, and for me, I know that that is not my path, but I know that I can also take my kids on a month long trip and work four hours a day on that trip and like, that’s our, have it all right?

Mm-hmm. So I always tell people like, what’s your habit? All, what’s that dream? And then create that, right? Because anything is possible, especially today, really, you can create any Yeah, like with work and the, and, and remote and how many hours you wanna work, and you, you really can create that, that reality.

Chelsey Scaffidi: I love that reframe. I haven’t heard of that. Like, you can have it all, you just can’t do it all. I’ve often said, you, you can do it all just not in the same season. Yeah. So I remind myself of that too. It’s like, maybe I’ll do these other things that I wanna do in a later season. Like life is long, hopefully.

And yeah, because I, I, I remember going back to work and talking to a coworker who had had a, I think she had two children and she was like, yeah, I mean, I’ve kind of just come to terms with the fact that like, I’m gonna be a b plus employee and kind of a b plus mom. And I remember walking outta there and being like, that’s not what I want.

Like I. I don’t wanna be a b plus mom. I, I wanna be a mom. And, and again, like your definition of a b plus or an a plus mom is different. But I think it’s like, I want, I want my kids to feel very seen and very held and very cared for. And that doesn’t necessarily mean that I am with them all day. And for some people that is what that means.

And I think allowing for, like, I always say like, all mothers work. All mothers work. It’s just, you know, it’s kind of these choice points and there’s no wrong or right or bad or good. And I think society really tries to tell you the opposite. That like, there’s a right choice and a wrong choice. And a good choice and a bad choice.

Emily Hirsh: Right. And our brains Right. Our brains usually like to go towards that too. Mm-hmm. Like that’s how we’re wired is let’s look at the linear

Chelsey Scaffidi: Yeah.

Emily Hirsh: Right, wrong, good, bad, so we can make sense of it and then do the right thing.

Chelsey Scaffidi: Yeah.

Emily Hirsh: Yeah.

Chelsey Scaffidi: It’s so much easier to look back in hindsight. Like, again, when I was looking through those voice notes, I was like, in, in the beauty of hindsight, I was like, oh my gosh, that thing had to happen to open this.

Or I had to say no to that to actually have space or when this other thing came up or it was actually like very beautiful. I think that’s, you know, the whole idea of like the butterfly effect or the one I love the most is, have you ever seen the movie Sliding Doors? Yes. With Glen sro.

Emily Hirsh: Yeah.

Chelsey Scaffidi: It’s like, I loved that movie and I, it’s like my favorite question to ask, I’d actually love to ask you, can I turn the mic around on you?

Yeah, yeah. Of like what was your sliding door moment like? What was that one moment where you could have gone left or you could have gone right and you chose left and it’s changed the trajectory

Emily Hirsh: for you. Yeah. I feel like I have a lot, but probably, probably the biggest was I had my son when I was 20 and I got pregnant with my husband but wasn’t planning it.

And you know. Where I grew up in California, it was like actually crazy that I chose to keep the pregnancy and have him. Mm-hmm. So for sure that is a huge one because yeah, I became a mom at 20 and I, I went through a hard time of like trying, like to decide what I was gonna do.

Chelsey Scaffidi: Wow.

Emily Hirsh: Because I didn’t have a lot of support to go through with having him.

Chelsey Scaffidi: Yeah.

Emily Hirsh: Which was terrifying. Yeah. You know, at 19 years old. And then to have like really pretty much all my family and friends to their, you know, full respect to them, they thought it was the best thing for me, right? Mm-hmm. To not have a baby at 20. And so the encouragement was don’t. Mm-hmm. And I just was like, who am I to say when the right time is?

Mm. You know, I’m with the person that I wanna have kids with. Yeah. And. I’m not in control of this. Right. Wow. And so yeah, I chose to have my son and then that’s what kick started my business because it was, I need to come up with a way to make money and I wanted to stay home with him. Like I knew I didn’t wanna put him in daycare or like be separated from him.

Yeah. And so I needed to come up with a way to make money online and that’s what started my whole business. So. Wow. I mean, otherwise I would’ve been on the path of finishing college and getting the degree and I was gonna do something with like holistic health and be like a naturopath. ’cause I was really passionate in that.

But I didn’t have, I always knew I’d be an entrepreneur, but this business was not the plan and it was because of him and that motivation that I was like, I’m gonna work from home and Yeah. Built the empire I have today. Really? Because of him. Yeah. ’cause I got pregnant at 19. Yeah. Right. Which at the time felt like.

Hmm. Why is this happening? You know, I don’t really want this to happen at this age. Right. And scary, terrifying. And then you’re fed a lot of, just naturally like you’re gonna be poor and struggle and life’s over. You didn’t get into enjoy your twenties. Right. So, and then there’s the shame of it.

Chelsey Scaffidi: Mm-hmm.

Right.

Emily Hirsh: So at the time it felt like not what I wanted, but then looking back, it’s like, that was for sure my path. That was what was supposed to happen. Yeah. 100%.

Chelsey Scaffidi: That was always part of your map, your journey. Yeah. All that’s so special that he gets to be like, you’re sliding down moment. Yeah. And it’s so funny because again, it’s like vantage point because I, I was really shocked when I found out I was pregnant.

People are always shocked to hear that because I was 34. I’d been married for four years, but I just like couldn’t see it. Like I knew I wanted to be a mom, but it felt like. It just didn’t feel like the right time, you know? And looking back, I always say to myself like, I don’t live with regrets, but I, like, sometimes I wish I would’ve started earlier,

you know,

Chelsey Scaffidi: like, what was I waiting for?

You know? I was like, I was, now that I have kids and I’m like, you, we still travel all the time. We still have like a full beautiful life. And so it’s just interesting that it’s like we’re told not to have kids too young and, but then not to have ’em too late and it’s like, it, your path is kind of your path and, and you can

Emily Hirsh: make it whatever you want.

I think that’s what I learned through it is like, it, you, you’re not, you don’t have these like predestined labels because you, you become a mom at 20 or you become a mom at 40, like, right. It’s not like, okay, now slap all these labels on what’s gonna happen to you. It’s like we are the creator of our reality.

Yeah. So just because I got pregnant at 19 does not mean I was destined for a life of. Bad finances. Mm-hmm. Right. With no college degree. Right. Like I, yeah, it’s gonna take energy and it’s gonna take effort, but like you really can create anything that’s possible. And I think it’s so important for people to remember that because there is so much, like just between social media, there’s just so much noise.

Mm-hmm. Of like, oh, you know, I feel like it’s, especially around parenting and becoming a mom and like just, there’s so much just unsolicited like, oh, you better be careful of this and this is gonna mean this and you should do this. And in business too, it’s like, this is the way to do it. And I always tell people like, there’s not a one way, right.

Like actually most successful business stories are very non-conventional. Yeah. And very like, this happened and then this happened and I couldn’t plan for it. And then I’m here. Right. They’re like all a documentary because, yeah, because they’re like some wild story. Right. Like when you, because nothing is like a, here’s the manual.

Right. Like nothing that is really. Your dream. It’s like you can’t plan it all. And that is the feminine energy. And that is like, yeah, trusting that, but it’s just knowing like what’s the next step? Mm-hmm. And then it’s knowing what’s the dream and then it’s believing you can create that dream.

Chelsey Scaffidi: Yeah. Well knowing what the dream is is huge.

I think that goes back to what you said earlier of like, you can have it all. I mean, how incredible that you were like, okay, I’m gonna do this, but I wanna find some way to like make money and be home with my child and at and interviewing these hundred women either in their first year of motherhood or about their first year of motherhood.

A lot of times it was the, like, the limitations that were coming up of like what they thought they could or couldn’t do because they now had a baby. And when I told my husband I was pregnant, which I found out I was pregnant, and then waited like four days before I told him Wow. Because I just really wanted to get right with it myself.

And yeah, I just wanted to like be in a good place when I told him, ’cause he was ready. Before I was, although he was aware that, like, that is maybe kind of normal because, because it wasn’t gonna affect him in the same way.

Right.

Chelsey Scaffidi: And when I told him I was pregnant, we were both like having that moment of like crying and hugging and he, he stopped and he looked at me and he was like, we’re gonna do this together.

You don’t have to give up.

Mm-hmm.

Chelsey Scaffidi: Your dreams. And I, I remember realizing how much I needed to hear that, because for me, I almost had the opposite path. It was like I had done the, the things that the society tells you that you need to do to like check the boxes. And I’d finally gotten to a place where I was like really feeling good about my career.

And then I heard, like in my head it was like, okay, well now you’re. Now you’re gonna have a baby and you’re gonna like, kind of fall off this path. And that was so untrue. It was, it, it honestly, and what I have found in talking to a lot of women is like sometimes motherhood, a lot of times motherhood ends up being the catalyst.

Yeah. To

Chelsey Scaffidi: actually like, create the life that you want. Because after that I was like, okay, I, I don’t really wanna work for somewhere that I have to go in the office anymore. I wanna be home. You know, we live in Michigan for, we live in Austin normally, but we live in Michigan for like a month or two outta the summer.

We go back to the lake house like where I grew up and we’re with my parents and my husband’s parents come in from Chicago and they get to have that like really full nourishing relationship because we’re remote. And I think that goes back to like, my definition of, of having it all is actually like feeling fulfilled in like a couple different arenas.

And Yeah. I mean, my son’s four and a half, like five years ago, I, I could not have seen that path. It wasn’t, you know, COVID hadn’t happened yet. No one in my industry was really remote. They had let me be remote on a temporary basis when I was in la and then as soon as my husband graduated, they were like, yeah, you gotta come back.

Nobody’s remote. Like that doesn’t really exist.

Emily Hirsh: Wow. And here we are. Yeah. Yeah. And I agree. I think like, becoming a mom, it just puts in perspective, like your values, right? Mm-hmm. And you’re like, okay, this is what, this is what I will tolerate. This is what I’m in alignment with. This is what I’m not.

Yeah. And then there’s so much creative energy when you are pregnant. Yeah. Like, I know for every one of my pregnancies, my business like’s like a nesting effect in your business that you’re like, I gotta get it ready for Right. You know, when I have the baby. Mm-hmm. And so it creates so much like creative energy, but also energy just to put into your business and like create the dream Yeah.

Of what that looks like with. The next kid or the kid. That was my experience. So I think there’s so many women I also have on here that it was like, yeah, they had their baby and then they shut down a business and started to new one, or did just something big happened around that.

Chelsey Scaffidi: Yeah, I think there’s that.

And then I think there’s also this sense of like when you were mentioning the nesting period, I remember I had started writing the book with my first, and I remember calling my book doula when I found out I was pregnant for my second. And I was like, so emotional because I was like, I, I needed to get this out because I’m not gonna be able to finish it once I have the second.

And, and she reminded me, she was like, you’re writing this book about the first year of motherhood, you’re gonna go through it all over again with different, different like nuggets of wisdom and like a different perspective. And that’s just gonna make the book even better. So I guess I would just say for anyone who feels like that sense of like, I need to finish or accomplish something.

You know, before the first baby or before like the next baby. There’s a sense again, I think that’s like a little bit of a falsehood of like, as I have more kids, like I’m gonna have less time. It’s like actually my four and a half year old, my one and a half year old, like really entertained each other well.

Yeah. And it’s like, it’s really sweet to watch them. And it was right like that year of going through it again made me more more creative. I had more relationships that I had. I had really like settled into Austin. I had interviewed a hundred women for the book and met so many incredible people through the book that have now been supportive.

And so sometimes it’s just like hard to see.

Emily Hirsh: Yeah.

Chelsey Scaffidi: You know, we put a lot of pressure like deadline, right? Yeah. Arbitrary. It’s, yeah. I was like, I have to have this done before. Yeah. And it’s like, but do you,

Emily Hirsh: I still do that to myself. And then I’m like, but why? Yeah. Like, this is in your head.

Chelsey Scaffidi: Yeah. Well that’s actually such a potent question.

Like, but why? Yeah. Why do I think I have to do it that way? Or why do I think this is impossible? After a certain point. Yeah. You know, just, you just, you figure out a way to like, make

Emily Hirsh: it work for you and it could be even better. Right? Yeah. Like, like for you, like waiting and then going through that again, that first year

Chelsey Scaffidi: mm-hmm.

Emily Hirsh: Gave you even more wisdom.

Chelsey Scaffidi: Yeah. No, it did. I, I feel like so much more in tune with what is in the book. I also think, like, I’m curious if you had this experience being like in your masculine energy and finding a lot of this balance between the two is I really felt like I needed to do a lot myself.

And what motherhood has also taught me is it’s, it’s okay. It sounds like so simple and cliche that it’s okay to ask for help, but people say to me now all the time, like, I don’t know how you do it all. And I’m like very quick to say it’s because I have a lot of help. Same. It’s, that’s why I say

Emily Hirsh: I don’t do it all.

I

Chelsey Scaffidi: don’t Yeah. Yeah. I, I, that’s exactly right. It’s like I. I have, and I’ve asked for a lot of help, more than I thought I would in these certain areas. And, and you know, that’s the way, like I, and I guess that’s where the social media stuff creeps in is because a lot of times you see people like having it all, you don’t understand how that is.

And the reality is they probably have a lot of help. Yeah. Because everyone has the same 24 hours and the same, you know, relative energy. I mean, I don’t know, I’m very into human design, so I’m a generator, so I know I have a Yeah. Are you a generator? Yeah. Yeah. So I, okay. There’s a little bit of like that personality, you’re kind of characteristics, but generally speaking, if someone looks on social media, like they’re doing a million things, they probably have people behind the scenes like helping out.

Emily Hirsh: Yeah.

Chelsey Scaffidi: You know?

Emily Hirsh: Yeah. And I think that’s like a skill that I learned is the asking for help and also choosing where I put my time and energy. Mm-hmm. So. I learned quickly with my business as soon as I could afford hiring help. Like I didn’t wanna spend a bunch of time cleaning and doing laundry when that was my time with my kids.

Yeah. I’m gonna hire that so that my time with my kids when I end work is playing. Mm-hmm. Right. It’s quality time. And so, I mean, it was a process over the last 10 years. Like in the beginning, we couldn’t afford any help and so my husband and I just like split shifts with Right. Our youngest or our oldest.

But I learned and, and I think I naturally have this skill, but I think it’s fed a lot into being able to have it all and have success in different areas of life. Success. My version of it is just being ruthless with my time and energy. Mm-hmm. Right. Like. Am I not going subconscious to where I’m putting it and just because I have to do this or

Chelsey Scaffidi: Yeah.

Emily Hirsh: Like putting the pressure on myself even, even this morning to do our interview. Like my husband’s driving my youngest to preschool. Mm-hmm. And I love driving in to preschool. Right. Yeah. So I had to like really be like, okay, yeah, but I’m gonna choose that ’cause I wanna get home, you know, later, earlier today to play with them.

And so that’s also just like awareness on your time and energy. Yeah. And is it in the place that’s gonna make you feel the most connected to your kids and your family productive and your business, and then getting help on the things that like you really don’t have to be doing. Mm-hmm. And I think the faster you realize that the, the, the more you’ll have it all.

Chelsey Scaffidi: Yeah. Right. One of my mentors asked me early on when I was doing the book of like, what’s the more finite resource? Is it time or is it money? And she’s like asking me honestly, like. Is it that you don’t have the time or you don’t have the funds? Like what, what’s the more finite resource? And for a lot of things in my life, like the more finite resources time, like I don’t actually have time to do that thing.

So like that’s where I’m gonna put my resources towards. Or it might be like, I actually don’t have a budget for that, so I’m gonna do it myself. And like, asking myself in those scenarios of what’s more finite for that particular thing, it’s been a really great like framework to operate under. And actually even with the book, like initially my book doula is, is very encouraging for self-publishing just because the publishing world can be really masculine and very, like from a legal perspective, I’ll say, you know, it’s like the ownership rights of like the IP and like your ability to really have a say in like your own book.

There’s a spectrum from, you know, self-publishing. You have all the. All the autonomy and all of the responsibility all the way to a very traditional publishing relationship where you sign your rights away to your IP and you have a lot of help. But there’s other things that come up with that. And I started the self-publishing route and I was writing the book and there was a certain point where I was like, I, I’m not in a season where I can do this by myself.

And so I actually found a hybrid publisher and that worked out really well. Like I get to own the ip. We have a different split. But I didn’t even know that existed. But I just started like talking about that. Like none of these feels right. Like one of them feels too, again, like too masculine and one feels like too flowy.

Like I need some accountability. I need someone, I don’t know. This process, huge growth edge for me. I had never written a book before. I just felt like this, like yearning of like, God, I remember getting up one night and just being like, I don’t get this story out of me. It just feels wrong, you know, that like fire under you.

And so I essentially found like a path that worked, a path that felt kind of in between there, but if I would’ve felt like I had to stick with my initial decision. So I, I say that a lot too. Like it’s okay to change your mind.

Emily Hirsh: Oh, totally. I say I reserve the right to change my mind at any time. Right?

Yeah. And especially as you like, teach and, and have a platform. Mm-hmm. I say that because it’s like right now in this current state and season, this is what I think, but I could change that, you know, when I have more wisdom and Yeah. Go through experiences. Totally.

Mm-hmm.

Emily Hirsh: Yeah.

Chelsey Scaffidi: And like evolve in my own.

And I think that’s the beauty of motherhood too, is like. The reason that you have a lack of control. Like before my kids, I had a lot of control because it was control over myself, which we do have autonomy over, right? Like, if I was feeling sad, I was gonna go do an activity that lifted me up, or if I was feeling down, I was gonna figure out a way to, but when you introduce other people that you’re responsible for and that you love so dearly, it’s like, I can’t control if my son is like gonna be in a amenable mood to go to this place.

You know? Like I, I actually like, it’s a constant lesson of letting go of the need to control and to like be nimble and to be you know, responsive versus reactive. Like, I think about that a lot and how I can just. Be like ready and aware without having to like move all the pieces myself.

Emily Hirsh: Yeah. For me, when I had my first, that was like the most challenging thing, the loss of control of my time in a day.

’cause I was like the productive, like, you know, just get it had full day like to myself. And then when I had my son, I was like, oh my gosh, I’m responsible. It’s human. Like every two hours needs to eat. Yeah. Like I’m, its food source. Mm-hmm. And then you’ve got the hormones that, you know, you, you’re so stressed when they’re crying and like, yeah.

Yeah. That was nothing. Nothing could have prepared me. Yeah. For that experience. Well,

Chelsey Scaffidi: people often ask me like, what, you know, what’s the one thing that you would’ve said to yourself in pregnancy? Or like, what’s the thing you wish you knew? And I feel like most people give us like really beautiful like words of wisdom.

And honestly for me, the thing that I think would’ve actually really changed the trajectory is I. Understanding what Metres is and the transformation that comes about when becoming a mother. And I remember where I was when I read about that term and just like feeling so seen. And I feel like that’s why I’m so galvanized now about being a metres educator is because so much of this change in transformation and like your priority shifting all of that feels like these kinda like soft things that are happening.

And it would be like if you didn’t, if you, you know, you, you saw like an 11-year-old who was going through adolescence, but they didn’t have a word for it. And they would just think like their, you know, their hormones are changing and like they’re growing breasts and they’re like growing armpit hair or whatever the thing, like, they like the fact that we have a word for it.

Like, you can look at a, at a child who’s going through adolescence and like you give them a lot of grace, you’re like, oh, you’re going through this developmental stage that is fundamentally. It’s gonna change who you are and it’s necessary. It’s like, can you imagine like wishing that a person on the other side of adolescence would go back?

It’s like, no, they’ve, they’ve like crossed this big threshold through this initiation and they’re a different person on the other side of it. And I think for me, I was so focused on the baby and just being a really good caretaker that I missed all the things that were gonna happen to me as a woman in that transition from maid into mother.

And like the, you know, like they can actually look at a brain scan of a woman who’s been pregnant and, and the brain scans are different in a good way. Yeah, actually, which is wild. Yeah. Like it’s that, it’s that profound.

Emily Hirsh: I would love to dig into that a little bit. I know you said you’re super passionate about that right now.

And I also actually haven’t even heard that term until right now. And yeah, when I had my kids, like, no one talks about that. It’s all about, I. The baby may be breastfeeding and like what you’re gonna go through with that, but no one prepares you for what you’re gonna go through. And then I also feel like when you have the baby, the focus is on the baby.

Chelsey Scaffidi: Yeah.

Emily Hirsh: Not really. I think it’s shifting a little bit now. Like people are starting to realize these things of what the mother goes through. Mm-hmm. But yeah, let’s dig into that a little.

Chelsey Scaffidi: Yeah. So I, I think the, the field of like perinatal psychiatry and just understanding the shifts that happen in pregnancy, especially through those first two years of motherhood is I.

Is really on the cusp of expansion. So Mires Essence is a term that was coined in the seventies by this woman Dana Raphael. She’s actually the same woman who gave us the word doula. So perhaps to her for these big words that we now, you know, doula is such a commonplace word. I always say that I like yearn for the day that mires essence won’t be like underlined in the squiggly red.

But Mires essence is essentially the same thing as adolescence. You know, adolescence is child to adult. Mires essence is made into mother. Mm. And there’s kinda like two big categories of what’s happening. One is the. Brain rewiring. So people often talk about mommy brain, which is like the pain of my existence, especially ’cause I, I come back to work after both pregnancies or both babies and people would throw that term around.

And mommy brain is such, such a myth. It’s actually what’s going on is what’s called synaptic pruning. So it’s like how you go out to your garden and you weed to let things grow bigger. Your brain is recalibrating for caregiving and so it’s actually like, you’re not just like forgetting things.

There’s a part of your brain that is intentionally going in to make your brain more efficient. So you’re most in that fluid state in the first two years. That’s when the neuroplasticity is like really rewiring. So from pregnancy through the first two years of postpartum and there’s a lot of brain changes happening, but the two that really stick out to me are the prefrontal cortex is getting more efficient in decision making, problem solving.

All good things. And then the amygdala, which is normally like your alarm bell system, is becoming more attuned to your child. So that’s like your responsiveness, your ability to kind of predict and, and be aware of how they’re feeling, what they might need. And so our brain is changing. And then on top of that, or probably because of that, actually, there’s a lot of hormonal changes happening too, right?

There’s prolactin, which is what creates breast milk and there’s a really high dopamine oxytocin hits. There’s, you’re, you’re being flooded with just a numerous chemicals that are helping shift the brain. And that’s why a lot of people, you know, experience the big dip right after is because in pregnancy you’re flooded with a lot of these.

And in, you know, if you continue breastfeeding. Those hormones are a little more consistent. For me, the hardest period for both my babies was when I stopped breastfeeding because that’s when like the sharp decline of hormones hit. Like it was a more noticeable drop, I would say. And so, yeah, there’s so much happening.

And I think about this compared to adolescents all the time because when you’re going, when you’re going through it, when you’re like 13, your primary job is to take care of yourself. You have somebody who’s like cooking for you and caring for you, and you have like one job, which is to go to school and you’re kind of learning like social.

And then when you go through rece, you’re taking care of another human for the first time in your life, you’re tired, you’re sleep deprived, you’re probably don’t have a bunch of people taking care of you. Hopefully you do. I think there’s like a real trend in people understanding, like whether it’s their partner or their postpartum doula, but historically.

Three months later, you’re asked to like go back into a job while still caring for this child, while still going through what they are now saying. Metres essence is a bigger endocrine, hormonal shift in your brain and body than adolescences. Wow. And so the first study to even mention the word metres was in 2022, which is wild to think about the fact that when women haven’t, can you imagine if we just figured out adolescence like two years ago, right?

Or three years ago that would be, or if we didn’t have a word for menopause. And so I think that there is, it sounds so simple that it’s like, okay, we’ve heard the word resin now and we can use it. But I think that what I’ve found in, in going and leading mother circles now for four years, ’cause that’s really where I shifted in having my babies.

Like I went from leading a lot of meditations to leading a lot of circles. And as I’ve talked about this term, it’s like. Women feel this shared sense of like, okay, what I’m going through is real, and what I’m going through is quote unquote normal. Like it’s, it’s a developmental stage. I’m not just gonna feel like myself in three months.

I’m gonna go through an incredible identity shift, just like you do in adolescence. Incredible shift in your like social perception, your priorities and all of that. Is, is actually for your greater or good. I think society makes it seem like when you have a baby, you’re, you have mommy brain, you can’t think, and you’re just like, you know, you’re kind of in this like little incubation period until you can get back to your real life.

And it’s the opposite. It’s like we are bouncing forward. It’s, I always use the reference of like the butterfly and. I think a lot of people forget that in between Caterpillar and Butterfly, there’s this point where like, the caterpillar dies, it becomes goo. There’s like just a tiny little bit of it that actually remains the same, and the caterpillar is probably like what’s happening.

And then on the other side of it, it’s like this big, bright, beautiful creature. And I think that that’s what ends up happening with us. But, but, but we’re not used to like being in the goo and people don’t talk about the messy middle of their, well, there’s no,

Emily Hirsh: at least when I had my first, there’s no like, space for that, right?

Like Right. That wasn’t even a thought. Mm-hmm. It’s like, just take care of the baby, you know? Right. Like adapt. Yeah. Push through it. Mm-hmm. You know? And I think that creates almost like you’re, you’re honoring that time. Yeah. Which. As it should, like. Mm-hmm. It is a massive, beautiful transformation, but also the goo and really messy and challenging.

Yeah.

Chelsey Scaffidi: I think about the same, like when a chicken hatch is out of an egg, right? It’s like they probably, they’re like in this little egg and they probably initially think like the world is falling in on them. ’cause it’s like their, their sky’s cracking and like, what’s happening? And then they step outta that eggshell and they like look back and they’re like, how did I even, you know, it’s like I don’t, I remember myself before, but but I’m grateful for the version that has come and the metamorphosis that I’ve gone through both times.

Even if it was really hard and scary at times, you know? Yeah. And I think having a word for it. It just makes me feel like

Emily Hirsh: just so less alone. Yeah. And having the, the science, I think science is such a universal language. Yeah. It’s like you can’t argue that. Right. And when you have, like, your brain is changing and these hormones mm-hmm.

And the chemicals and you’re like literally rewiring. Right. It, it just gives it the power that it is really Right. Not it’s not in your head. Yeah. It’s not like an emo just an emotion that you’re, you’re gonna gotta get over or something.

Chelsey Scaffidi: Well, it’s like, how do you dispel the myth of mom brain until you have science that shows that her brain is actually getting more efficient?

Like, that is the antidote to people throwing that around. It’s like, actually no, I’m, I’m better off. I am like recalibrating for efficiency. Instead of just like, I feel foggy at the moment. It’s like, yeah, that’s what neuroplasticity is. That’s why adolescents also feels like a really crazy time for them, you know, because their brain is rewiring at that stage of their life.

And so. I just feel so passionate now about sharing the word and, and I mean, it’s so cool. You’re so not alone. Like I, on the book tour, this has been, I often say that the book is a portal, not a product, because usually what I talk about is resin and like, usually people haven’t heard the term. It’s like, it’s not commonplace yet.

And I think, but once they hear it, like they have the same feeling as I had when I read about it. Like, oh my gosh, I feel so seen. You know? Yeah. And, and really like honoring what you’ve gone through Yeah. Or going to go through. Right. Yeah. And knowing that it’s like a stage that you go through as a person instead of just like, I remember being like, yesterday I wasn’t a mom and today I am.

That feels crazy. Crazy. So weird. But, but it’s not like an overnight change. Right. But that, that is historically how we have seen it. Like you’re, you know, one day in between being a mother and not, and it, and then you’re like in it and it’s like, actually no. This is a two year process of completely being in the goo.

Shedding myself, recreating parts of myself, creating the life so I can have it all reimagining what having it all means

Emily Hirsh: is

Chelsey Scaffidi: huge. Yeah.

Emily Hirsh: Wow. I love it.

Chelsey Scaffidi: Yeah.

Emily Hirsh: Anything final you feel like we didn’t touch on? I feel like we could go for another hour. I know. Like, honestly, I love talking to you.

Chelsey Scaffidi: No, I, I feel like we really covered a lot of things and I love that you, one thing I’m gonna take with me is I love that you called, like being in your masculine, your superpower, because I think that all people, you know, men included, like, I think the parts that I love about my husband are often like his ability to get in touch with his feminine side and to be like in that flow and be the caretaker.

And I think it is a strength of ours to also be like in our masculine and it’s just finding that, that balance. Yeah. And, and of

Emily Hirsh: course I’m sure like you probably based on that say similar, like, I feel like I found a partner Yeah. Who can get in touch with their feminine because. Feminine energy ’cause I’ve lacked it.

Yeah. For so long. Mm-hmm. And then also get to create the space for him to step more into his masculine as I step out of mine.

Chelsey Scaffidi: Yeah. This dance that we do.

Emily Hirsh: Yeah. It’s such a

Chelsey Scaffidi: beautiful dance. Yes. And it’s really important to find someone who, who can do that dance with you. ’cause Yeah. I’m, I’m not always in harmony.

Like, there are times when I need to be in one or the other. Or I should say I’m not always in balance. Like it’s not always 50 50, you know, nor I think should it be Right. Exactly. It’s constantly recalibrating. Yeah.

Emily Hirsh: Amazing. I, well, thank you so much and we will link your book, but where should people go to just follow you and continue to get your wisdom?

Chelsey Scaffidi: My Instagram is Chelsey Scaffidi. And then I also have an Instagram for the book, which is @ the mother year. Okay. And there’s a website and I have a. Portal and they’re called the Seasons portal that just has free meditations for the season of motherhood that you’re in. So that’s another resource.

I love it. You feeling like you wanna tap into some more meditation, which I know you’re

Emily Hirsh: know, we didn’t even get deep into. I’m actually bummed we didn’t get to talk about meditation. I have questions. Love have you back on. Yeah, I know. Maybe I’ll also have you at one of my events or something if you’re here.

’cause I would love if you facilitate meditation. I do.

Chelsey Scaffidi: And I love that. Okay. I love holding space in that way.

Emily Hirsh: Amazing. Well, thank you so much. Thank you. This was an amazing conversation. You too. I love being here in person. It’s so fun. So fun. Thank you. You too.