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Hannah Gill was sobbing at 2 AM while recording course modules, working full-time, and desperately trying to force her business to work so she could quit her job. Then she had a breakdown, refunded everyone, and almost shut down her business entirely.

What happened next changed everything. Instead of quitting, Hannah chose a completely different path—one that led to her most successful launch ever while working just 5-10 hours a week.

In this episode, Hannah shares how she went from 6 sales to 22 sales with the exact same content by making one simple messaging change, why she said no to the dream of quitting her day job, and how she built a business that actually supports her life instead of consuming it.

Key Takeaways:

• The messaging shift that 4X’d her results—how Hannah went from 6 enrollments to 22 enrollments with the same content but completely different positioning
• The “anti-launch” strategy that actually works—why Hannah’s most successful launch happened with no webinar, just emails and a few social posts (and how you can adapt this approach)
• Building a sustainable side business—how to create meaningful income and impact while working full-time, raising kids, and maintaining your sanity

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More ways Embodied Marketing can support you:

If you’re ready to hand off your entire marketing strategy (from funnels to ads to copy) and finally get the expert team you can trust, apply here and let’s talk: helpmystrategy.com

Connect with Hannah Gill: 

• Instagram
• Website
• Motherhood Flow Podcast

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READ THE EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Emily Hirsh: In today’s podcast episode, I am joined by Hannah Gill.

Hannah Gill: I was literally recording modules sobbing at like 2:00 AM and I’m not doing this. I’ve been able to build my business to fit into my life versus fitting my life around my business.

Emily Hirsh: One of the biggest things that stood out for me is there’s no one right way to do things,

Hannah Gill: and if I make a good amount of money, great.

If I don’t during this time, that’s fine too. It’ll still be there when I’m ready to come back. The struggle that you’re currently in. Is probably where they started too. She just had her most

Emily Hirsh: successful launch, but not in a traditional way that you would think a launch would happen.

Hannah Gill: It went from six to 22, and now I’ve, now it’s evergreen than I already have more people enrolling.

It’s okay to dream big, but that what you’re wanting, it doesn’t have to come right now.

Emily Hirsh: So we dove deep into this story and I’m honored to have. Embodied CEOs don’t chase trends. They pave the way they lead from within. Move by purpose, unshaken by noise. When you are the source, you do not need permission.

All right, welcome to the podcast. I’m so excited all the way from Indiana.

Hannah Gill: Yeah, yeah.

Emily Hirsh: Yeah. So this will be so fun. You’ve been in my world for about how long

Hannah Gill: a year, exactly? July of 2024.

Emily Hirsh: Yeah. I remember when you jumped into the program and it was like a big decision. Yeah. So let’s start with you a little bit.

Give us some background on you and your business and your story, wherever you wanna start.

Hannah Gill: Yeah. So I’m from Indiana. My husband and I live there with our. Currently two children, third one on the way south central Indiana area. I’ve lived kind of all over, but that’s where we have spent the majority of our life.

We’re both from there. As far as business goes, I never in my life thought I’d be an entrepreneur. That was never the plan. And my plan was always to go to med school. I went to, got my undergrad in human biology, my master’s in forensic biology. And I had planned to go to med school to be a forensic pathologist.

When I took the MCAT at the end of grad school, I was actually pregnant and didn’t know with my first, and still at that time, my plan was, baby’s gonna be born, I’m gonna go to med school, like all the things. And then I had a very, very traumatic birth experience with him, and that changed absolutely everything.

So that’s kind of how my business started was I had a really bad birth and postpartum experience with him, and I got into childbirth education, birth work, and really was doing it more of as a hobby, I guess like a side passion project, I guess. And then. When I had my daughter about two and a half years later, I had a much different birth experience with her and that’s when I really dove into like the business side of things and, went into Amy Porterfield’s, DCA programs, kinda where I started it, found that through Kylie and kind of started like the online portion of my business, three months postpartum, still, like in that postpartum fog. Started supporting birth clients in person and then that’s when I turned it into more of, I would say, an official business.

But the, the caveat to that is I still work a full-time job, so I’m a Salesforce administrator for. A Biotherapeutic company. I work 30 hours a week now. It was 40 hours when I, in the last couple years, so I transitioned to that. So it’s more of like a side business in addition to my, my full-time work.

So, but I never. Never, never thought I would be an entrepreneur. It was never on my radar.

Emily Hirsh: So it started from the passion, like you had your first, you went through that traumatic experience and then that’s what kind of threw you into, okay. I wanna, what was the motivation, I guess, behind starting the business?

Hannah Gill: Yeah, so I was just so thrown off by my birth and postpartum experience. I had never really looked into like birth in any other way than just like you go. At the hospital, you have your baby, like you take a birth class at the hospital and everything’s good. And then after that experience, I started just diving more into like, what happened?

Why did it happen? That type of thing. And I thought. You know, I would really love to be a childbirth educator to really prepare more moms for the experience that I had. So I became a childbirth educator first. So it was really just that passion driven from my experience and wanting to help guide other moms through that.

And that I didn’t really get into the online portion of business. It was all in person until the birth of my second. And that, and I realized like I wanna be with my kids more. I wanna have that flexibility to be home with them more than I am now. Really intentionally spend time with them.

And especially after the birth of my daughter. When I started like the online side of things, I was so, so desperate to quit my full-time job and. I was just doing everything I possibly could, really trying to force it. It was a big I guess topic of argument between me and my husband for like six months plus because I do, we just moved into a new house.

We’re about to have a third baby. Those types of things, like all the financial aspects of me quitting my job. And I was just so dead set on to have this freedom and the life that I want. I have to quit my job. And in October of 2023, I actually had put in my, my resignation like in spite of what the discussions my husband and I had.

And my company was like, well, what do we need to do to keep you here? And I was like, I wanna work from home. I wanna. Going to a different position. I wanna work 30 hours a week. I don’t wanna work 40 hours a week. So I started doing that in January of 2024, but I still was just like working till like 2:00 AM every night on the business side of things after I got done with regular job and being with my kids and stuff.

And I was just to the point of. Pure exhaustion and burnout and basically had like a full breakdown in January of 2024. And I was like, I can’t continue doing what I’m doing. My health, my physical and mental health was just ridiculously horrible and, I had launched a program at that time, like an online program for doulas, and I was so burnt out.

I was literally recording modules sobbing at like 2:00 AM and I’m not doing this. I refunded everyone and just really had to like, take a step back and adjust my, my way of thinking about things. So between like January and June of 2024. I just started like a almost a pause on everything and I was like, I need to reevaluate, figure out what I’m doing.

And then in June of 2024, I was like, I’m giving myself till the end of the year to get forward progress and my business. And if I don’t, then I’m just shutting it all down because it’s just not good for my mental health, not good for my family. In, in addition to my full-time job and then I joined.

Within the Embodied team and started seeing progress and launched a new program in October, 2024. And things have been picking up ever since which is good. But I’m still at this place where, especially now with this third pregnancy, I’ve, because I’m working less in my full-time job, I’m only working 30 hours a week from home.

I’ve been able to build my business to fit into my life versus. Fitting my life around my business. So I’m just much more at peace with not trying to force myself to quit my job because I had like this huge realization that if I had quit when I wanted to quit, it wouldn’t have been enjoyable for me anymore because I would’ve been reliant on the business for money.

And right now I’m not. It’s something I can do because I’m passionate about it, because I love doing it. And still. Have all the extra time with my kids that I’m wanting and making it fit. So I’m in this place of kind of wanting more ease versus force and trying to like force all of it to work and making it work for me instead of me working for it.

Emily Hirsh: I love all this. So your business started from passion, then you had, okay, I’m dead set on quitting my job. Mm-hmm. And then so it was January of last year that you decided, oh, I might not even continue my business ’cause I’m so stressed out. You gave yourself to the end of last year. And then you had some momentum, but it sounds like from when you and I were talking a lot and you were like working at Applebee’s every night, like, like working there to work on her business, not actually working at Applebee’s, but I always thought that was a cool story.

Like you go there and kind of hustle at your business, but you found more of like a sustainable cadence with your business and your job. Is your goal still to leave your job? Can you say that? Can you, can you answer that on the podcast?

Hannah Gill: Yeah. I would say that. That’s, that would still be a great, like a great thing for it to happen for me, but I’m not in this point where I feel like that has to happen to be happy with it.

You’re not

Emily Hirsh: putting the pressure on yourself. Not putting

Hannah Gill: the pressure. So if my business grows and I’m able to do that, awesome. If not, like I love the way things are right now. And as I move into like this pregnancy and postpartum experience, I’m just in this place of really wanting to be intentional with my children while they’re young and not.

Spreading myself too thin because the business is always gonna be there. People are always gonna be having babies, and that support’s always going to be needed. But my kids are only gonna be so small for so long and I just want like these next, I don’t know if it’s gonna be just my maternity leave or a year or whatever.

But I just wanna be like more intentional with them which is kind of why I’m moving more towards having things be like Evergreen automated, not doing. Live launches. Like I was in the past, I actually just launched a program back in April, April May-ish with no live launch at all. And it was my best launch I’ve ever had.

It was just like emails and like a couple of social posts and that was it. It was the biggest launch I’ve had so far, so,

Emily Hirsh: yeah. So we’ll get into that too ’cause I wanna hear the progression of launches. I love this ’cause you really, like, you’re coming from a place of intention with this decision.

It’s not like. I don’t think that my business can be successful, so I’m kind of giving up and I’m gonna stay at my job. You’re like where I am at right now in my life with these young kids and pregnant, I’m intentionally making this decision that like, this is how my business is gonna fit in. And five years from now, maybe you will leave your job or maybe it’ll be less or whatever, and be able to go full-time in your business and like carry that pressure of creating the income from your business.

But you were like. That’s not in alignment with me right now with where I’m at in, in motherhood, which is is really admirable. ’cause I think a lot of times you see people either like try to force it ’cause they have this goal that they set of like quitting their job. And I get it right, that’s a dream. Or people who go, well, it’s been this amount of time, I’m not making this X amount of dollars to be able to quit my job yet, and so therefore I’m gonna quit my business completely and just be like, oh, I can’t do it.

Hannah Gill: Yeah.

Emily Hirsh: And you’re definitely not doing that.

Hannah Gill: No, mine’s just more of like a, not quitting my business, not forcing my business. It’s more of just letting it be as it is and it’s, it’s there. But I’m not like moving forward for the next. Foreseeable future, however long that may be. I’m not going to be. Like making it my top priority.

It’s gonna be there. I’m still gonna work on it. But it’s not something I’m going to stress myself out over. I’m not super concerned about because I’m not reliant on the income of my business.

Emily Hirsh: Yeah, you don’t have this pressure. Yeah, I don’t

Hannah Gill: have this pressure to, okay. I have to, you know, work through my maternity leave.

I need to work until 2:00 AM every night like I was doing. It’s just, if I wanna work on it, I’ll work on it. All my programs are now evergreen. They’re there if people want to enroll in them, they’re there. And now it’s just like letting it be. And if I make a good amount of money, great. If I don’t during this time, that’s fine too.

It’ll still be there when I’m ready to come back to it. So

Emily Hirsh: I think this is a cool story for people to hear is like another way to do things. You know, there’s not like one right way of like this big exit from your job and you know, sometimes that’s people’s story and that’s also okay. But I, I love this for you.

Hannah Gill: And I was there, I mean, I was at that point where I was. Literally like, I’m quitting my job, I’m doing this, I am making this business work, and I’ll give myself five years and if it doesn’t work, I’ll go back to working. And I’m so, so glad looking back. No, I did not do that because I know what it would’ve been and I know how stressed I would’ve been as financially especially trying to do all of that.

So I’m, I’m looking back now. I’m so glad I like. Stayed at my job and continued to work on my business at the same time. But if I didn’t put in my resignation at that time, I would not be in the work position I am now. So I wouldn’t be working from home. I’d still be in the office 40 hours. Right. ’cause you were

Emily Hirsh: able to be like, well, if you want me to stay, this is what I want.

Yes. This is what I want. Yeah.

Hannah Gill: And it’s such a flexible job too, where. I don’t have to work set hours so I can work in the evenings if I want, if I need to be home with my kids, if I need to take ’em places or whatever. I have that flexibility, and if I didn’t have that, it would be much harder, like when the first year or so I was still in the office 40 hours a week working and then doing all of that.

So the flexibility has definitely helped me fit my business in in a more. Just easy way.

Emily Hirsh: Yeah. And I mean, one of your motivations was to be able to be home with your kids in the day, which you’re able to do that. How long has it been since you like, kind of officially started your business? Two years?

Hannah Gill: It was 2022. Okay. So it was, I was literally three months postpartum starting to support birth clients. So yeah, it was August of 2022 was official. Okay. Okay. When I started my business. And that

Emily Hirsh: was in person supporting clients?

Hannah Gill: Yes. But I also started the online at the same time. I had like started working through DCA and just building my website, figuring out all the things.

But I didn’t launch like my first official program until October of 2023.

Emily Hirsh: Okay.

Hannah Gill: I had tried like. A million different iterations of things and like trying to figure out what worked for me and what was gonna be the best offer. And the first few launches I had were all geared towards moms. It was a mother’s program and.

I kept, I kept having doulas join my stuff and I was like, why? I’m marketing to moms. Like, I don’t understand, like I would have doulas download my mom for abs and things like that. So I really made the pivot to doulas this year, and that has been like astronomically different than any other offer I’ve had and has the most traction so far.

So.

Emily Hirsh: I wanna get into like the, the business journey a little bit. ’cause you definitely have the personality of like, relentless. Like you, you didn’t quit even when you had a launch that didn’t go necessarily how you wanted it to. And so tell me about that, that journey, like somebody who’s maybe in the thick of something not working for them.

What were some of the lessons and. Experiences you had on that? Like, okay, this didn’t work, and how’d you figure out what worked and how’d you stay on that path?

Hannah Gill: Yeah, so I mean, I started out with my first, like, my first launch, I was literally like begging people. I was like, take it for free, just so I can have like feedback and input on the content and the program and what’s working and what’s not.

Like my first like official like huge launch with like a webinar and all the things, I felt like it went really well and my webinars, I had a lot of good show up rates and stuff and people just weren’t enrolling and it was various reasons that I was given, but I think the biggest thing was just getting.

Talking to people and getting feedback from people was like, the biggest thing. I was fine honestly because I was not reliant on the income for this business. I was fine with people. I’m like, take this for free and just gimme all the feedback you can. I just want you to go through the program just so I can and know what’s working and what’s not and what I can make better or what I need to remove.

So it was really just continuing to have conversations with people, putting myself out there like. I was like a networking junkie in any way possible, like locally, online, everything. Just trying to connect with people, trying to get my name out there. I even for being one of like the newer doulas in my area, I had probably the most clients in person as far as that goes.

Just because I was always putting myself out there, always trying to find like, in Facebook groups on Instagram and like local places. So just trying literally everything I could. And then just seeing what worked was how I first started out. But when things didn’t work, when I had multiple launches, I just listened to like.

What my audience, what people were saying they wanted, which is, I feel like it, it seems so easy to do, but it’s not like a lot of people don’t really listen to what their audience is saying. And it’s not like they’re directly saying it to you, but it’s like based on what they’re consuming from you, based on what they’re saying to you in a DM or something like that.

So I knew there I needed to make a pivot. I knew I really wanted to support moms still, but I needed to make a pivot for my primary offers to do list based on who was joining my email list, who was DMing me, who was following me. It was always the doulas more than it was for the mom. So really just listening to what’s happening instead of trying to force an offer that I wanted to make because I thought it was a good offer.

Really just getting that feedback from people was like, the easiest way.

Emily Hirsh: Yeah. I mean that’s that beginning piece that you talked about of like the networking and the going in Facebook groups and the trying a bunch of things that’s so key. So I wanna, I wanna hit on that for people listening ’cause that’s literally what I teach in the, before the expand program is, it’s the, the knowing your ideal customer.

It’s the offer and the offer positioning, and then it’s literally having as many conversations as you can with. Ideal customers and kind of seeing where those goes go and where those land. So you definitely like did that part right of you. You don’t have a plan at that phase of business, right? It’s not like, let me roll out this nice marketing plan that I’m gonna do and it’s gonna work.

It’s, it is the like, I have to try a bunch of things and it’s. Action that is rewarded, especially in that phase. And then it’s going, okay, now I’m, I’ve got this momentum, I’ve got feedback coming in. And you’re right, they don’t tell you directly. They don’t say like, oh, hey Hannah, you should sell this exact program and I’ll, you know, buy it from you.

That’s the job of an entrepreneur and and of a creator is, okay, I’m doulas are coming and so they’re saying this and so I could solve that problem for them with my process or whatever it is. And then it’s kind of evolving your business from there, which is. The journey that you went on, did you have moments of, I’m sure you did like the moments of like, what if I can’t do this?

Hannah Gill: Oh, 100%. Like, there was like probably six months straight where I cried every single night because nothing was working and I was just so frustrated and I’m just like, maybe I’m not cut out for this. Maybe like, this is never gonna work and I just need to, I was so frustrated because like in person. If my in-person clients were taking off, like I could have had five clients a month if I wanted to, but I, since I was also working full-time, it was really hard to be on call for births and that type of thing.

So the money was in the in-person support at that time, and, but I was so. Trying to make the online portion work so I didn’t have to be on call and all of those things. So I was, there was really like multiple times where I was like, I’m just gonna have to do in person, but that’s gonna be too hard if I still have a job.

So what am I gonna do? And just, I kept reading like other people’s stories or listening to podcasts and. Every time you see someone, you think, oh, well it’s working for them, so why isn’t it working for me? But you don’t always see like where they started, like the struggle that you’re currently in is probably where they started too.

So yeah, there was. I always thought like, this is not gonna, this is not gonna work until it started working.

Emily Hirsh: And what did you, like, what kept you going in those moments?

Hannah Gill: Really just because I, I have such a passion for what I’m the topic and like birth and everything. I knew that no matter if it was an official business or not, I always, I wanted to do it and.

Really just the motivation. At first it was the motivation to quit my job and I was like, I have to make this work ’cause I wanna quit my job. But then once I started seeing, like having conversations with people saying like, you’re helping me in this way and what you’re doing is such like, important work is just the motivation of actually seeing what I was doing was helping people.

And I was like, okay, I need to keep going. I need to keep doing this. ‘Cause I could always like, you know, just have an Instagram page and like. Share information. But when I started getting actual feedback on like my childbirth education content and things like that, saying this is truly helping people, and I was like, okay, well then.

This is frustrating, but I’m gonna keep, I’m gonna keep doing it.

Emily Hirsh: Yeah. You’re very driven by the impact that you have. Oh, hundred percent. Like that’s kind of why you started your business and then what kept you going. And then it feels like the, like for you, the personal side of like, the freedom is like the secondary Yeah.

Drive to your business where for a lot of entrepreneurs, that’s the primary. It’s like, I wanna make the money and, and there’s nothing wrong with either, but you seem very driven by the impact you having. 100%

Hannah Gill: because. I was my ICA, so because I personally experienced what I’m helping with, I think that makes it such, such more personal connection and a personal motivation there because I was there at one point and I, I wanna help with that because I know the struggle and I know the trauma and I know how hard it can be to go through those experiences.

And if any way to help anyone go through that. Is a motivation. Enough, so,

Emily Hirsh: so you joined, expand about a, it was about a year ago. Yeah. And you joined, so it was

Hannah Gill: July.

Emily Hirsh: And tell, talk to me about the changes you made since joining there to like have these successful launches and see that that traction.

Like what changes did we make in your strategy and,

Hannah Gill: yeah. So I started out again, I was, when I started, I was focusing on my program for moms and I had what. I would say as quote unquote, a successful launch as far as like the process and everything like that. But it was still just like crickets with the moms.

So I altered my strategy and decided to pivot to doulas, and that was where. Everything kind of took off was from there because not, it’s not that it’s impossible for me to sell my program to moms. I have people join it just not in the quantity that I have doulas joining as well. I think sometimes, especially when it comes to birth, especially people that have experienced birth trauma in some way, there’s always like hesitation or reluctance or they’re just not.

Sure what they need. They don’t know in the moment what they may need or want, and it’s just a different, a very different audience, a very different customer. And I’ve, I’ve pivoted my, my mom’s offer to just accommodate them more in what they’re needing. And yeah. So, but I switched to end up switching to doulas and that’s where everything kind of changed because I knew that.

By helping doulas be more educated on VBAC and Cesarean, I would still be helping moms because those doulas would be helping. Right. So it would be even, I could technically help even more moms that way. So yeah, just pivoting to doulas was the big thing. And then I wasn’t necessarily something that I, I was.

That I learned or was told to do because I chose not to do a live launch. I was like, I, I don’t have the time and energy for that. I’m not doing, I’m not doing that. I had just found out I was pregnant. I was like in my first trimester and I was like, no, I’m not doing that. I was like, oh, maybe I’ll do a webinar or something.

I had my webinar ready to go. I just didn’t do it. So it was mainly just like an email launch. But I had worked up. Two years of building my list and building my audience through my podcast and Instagram and my following and everything like that. So I think just taking a different, like a different approach than what seemed like the right thing to do was kind of what helped me, especially for this most recent launch.

So,

Emily Hirsh: yeah, so shifting the positioning, the messaging, even the ideal customer a little bit based on feedback. And I mean, it makes sense. It’s like a doula. Can say, not that you can’t sell to moms, like you said, but it’s like, for them it’s like a business investment, right? And so they’re gonna grow their business.

So it’s a little easier probably to, to get them to invest.

Hannah Gill: And one of the biggest things I switched, like you mentioned, messaging, that was a huge thing that I focused on because the other programs out there that are similar to mine in some way, shape, or form, has the same concept focused solely on vbac.

Whereas I. Really brought into my message and heavy that this covers cesarean as well in an equal amount. Because so many doulas don’t understand like how to properly support a cesarean and when one in three births are C-sections, like they need to know how to do that. So my messaging is focuses very much on this is a program for feedback and cesarean births, not just feedback, which I think makes the biggest difference because I’ve had multiple people comments on like, I’m so glad you’re covering C-section as well as feedback because.

Not enough training to cover that.

Emily Hirsh: So you got more specific kind of Yeah. In, in the result and the outcome that you provide. So more specific in your messaging even shifted the ideal customer and then you’d built up the, the leads, the audience for two years and, and started to really feel that I called the snowball effect of like literally it will never be a waste growing your list and.

Creating content to build an audience. Yeah. I was at an event last week where big, big entrepreneur said, investing in the media. He calls it media. Like all his content is like building a moat around him that nobody can touch him. Mm-hmm. And it’s exactly true because if you do that, like even in the seasons where you’re maybe working less on your business and not sure what you’re gonna do next, it, you know if, when and if that happens, it’s like if you still show up and make those connections with your audience and build your audience and build your list, it will literally never not pay off.

Like even if it’s in a year or two years from now. ’cause I bet you, you had people in that last launch, you did join who had been around for. Six, 12 months. Yeah. In your world.

Hannah Gill: Yeah. And depending on os, obviously, depending on who your target audience is, so like. Our local birth community in India is super, super close.

So I had a bunch of people locally, ’cause I, I was at a speaking event at a doula conference in Indiana. So I had a bunch of people locally join as well. I had people who were already on my list. I had random people from Facebook groups join that weren’t even on my list. So it was just a very different approach than any other launch I had done.

’cause all my other launches were the typical like webinar. Follow up email sequence enrollment type thing, which that works for so many people. But I just. Felt like I didn’t, I need to do something different for the season that I’m in.

Emily Hirsh: You know, your offer’s good when that’s like how you sell it is like people in in the Facebook group and the like, it’s something different.

They haven’t seen it before. They really need it. Like, you know, you nailed your offer, which is the key, you know, marketing’s easy ones. That happens.

Hannah Gill: Yeah, that and that was the hardest part. Like it took me forever. To just get my offer done because I was trying to take the approach of like marketing and doing all the sales before creating, but with my schedule and like working full time too, that made it so much harder for me.

Like I needed to just get my offer done, like pretty much done for the most part, or at least part the way done ahead of time. And then it, I had less stress and then I could just market it afterwards. So once I got both of them done, like for the moms and doulas, it just made it. So much easier and just something just clicked with my offer for doulas that just kind of took off.

So

Emily Hirsh: I think there’s something to say too for like your energy in that launch, like the level of like ease and just like, this is how I’m gonna do it. And you know, you didn’t have the force that you probably had in the past with a webinar, like, this has to work and I have to get this many sales, which I get it like.

You know, people have goals and you wanna hit those goals, but I think that makes a huge difference going into a launch with that energy compared to. This has to work and if it doesn’t work, like

Hannah Gill: Yeah. Yeah. And it was the weirdest thing because I started it with it. There was World Doula Week, which is like a, a national week, and I was like, oh, I wanna do a giveaway for World Doula Week.

Built my email list up like that. And like people joined the wait list based off of this giveaway that they entered and. Then I emailed the promotion basically to that wait list. Everyone that entered and then put a post, a bunch of social posts out, and then that was it. That was absolutely all I did for my launch.

Well, you a great offer. I know. That was all I did for my launch and like for comparison. So my first time I launched, like my offer for doula, it was. Essentially the same program. This was in January of 2024 when I was sobbing and refunded the six people that that joined. I had six people. That was a webinar live launch.

I had six people enroll. My messaging, the content was the same, but my messaging was much different. It was focused on VBAC specifically. It wasn’t really pushing cesarean on that. So basically the same, essentially the same offer with different messaging, a different wrapping paper, I guess you wanna say.

Had 22 people enroll, so

Emily Hirsh: Wow. That just also is the power to messaging and positioning ’cause it’s the same content. But just different wrapping paper.

Hannah Gill: Mm-hmm. It went from six to 22 and now I’ve, now it’s evergreen. And so I’m, the first was a cohort, a live cohort style. Now it’s evergreen and I already have more people enrolling, so

Emily Hirsh: that’s incredible.

What’s the price point of that offer?

Hannah Gill: 2 99.

Emily Hirsh: That’s awesome.

Hannah Gill: So and it, I think one of the biggest things, because a lot of doulas are certified, so one of the biggest things is. Approved for like eight contact hours for recertification purposes. Which I think is a big push because there’s a lot of trainings out there where they, they don’t get contact hours.

They get the valuable training and information. But a lot of people want those contact hours too, which is helpful. But I think the biggest thing, which is changing. The messaging and really emphasizing different parts of the content, so.

Emily Hirsh: Wow. So how do you feel now? Like after that was in January this big launch, or No?

Hannah Gill: This was in May.

Emily Hirsh: Oh, so relatively recent. Yeah. Yeah. So now your intention is, baby’s coming, I’m gonna turn this evergreen. Mm-hmm. Like, how do you feel now after having that success and like where your business is at?

Hannah Gill: I feel just very like, okay, I know this, I know this works. I know this is a good offer.

And it’s there if people want it. And I have also, I use an affiliate model too, so I have affiliates for the program as well, which is helpful. So basically anyone that comes into the program has the opportunity to be an affiliate if they want to. And really now I feel like it’s just word of mouth that, that people are doing.

’cause a lot of people are like, oh, I have another doula friend who would be interested in this. I have some doula agencies that want the whole group to do it. So. I feel really good that I finally have an offer that I know works, because that was the hardest part, was just like getting an offer that was good and that people wanted, and that was a no brainer for people.

And I feel like once you have that and it clicks, then it’s just like, okay, now I just have to market it.

Emily Hirsh: Yeah.

Hannah Gill: But now with, with baby coming and stuff, I’m moving into more of like a, I would say quote unquote passive marketing. Type approach. ’cause I’m moving away from using social. Oh

Emily Hirsh: you are? Yes.

You’re moving away from using social. Yes. Tell me about that decision. I’ve

Hannah Gill: always had a very,

Emily Hirsh: and we’ve talked about this ’cause love, hate relationship with

Hannah Gill: social. After my first baby I had postpartum depression horribly, and I deleted like all social media for like five months and it was the best, the best thing I’ve ever experienced.

And. I just don’t, I just don’t care enough to like show up there. Like I went through a period where I was like cranking out content, like reels and posts and it just felt so like, I don’t know, I just get like two sucked into it and then I end up scrolling and then I’m distracted and. I just, I don’t, my sales don’t come from there.

Like, as far as social media goes. Literally just posting to Facebook groups is like what I get my most sales from which is great. Like I make connections and I nurture on Instagram and I mean, that’s a good thing, but I’d rather do that through my podcast. I, my podcast is a lot bigger than, than what my Instagram is.

And I get a lot. Better feedback there, but I’m just like, I just don’t have the desire to be on social. So what I’m essentially doing is making it like a landing page with like a nine grid and like linking out to all my things. I’ll probably put in like some mini chat automations or something like that, but I just have no desire to actually just show up there.

I’ve just always really had a love hate relationship and the, my biggest turning point was I was making content for something. I was on my phone and. My kids were like trying to get my attention and I like snapped at them because I was like so focused at what was on my phone. I’m like, what am I doing?

Like this is so not me. And I just always find myself just in a more negative mindset when I’m off, when I get off of it.

Emily Hirsh: Yeah. It is such a, ugh, man. You know, I have this conversation all the time. I mean, I, I enjoy creating the content, but that line of like creating and consuming can blend so fast. And I hear what you’re saying with the kids, like, yeah, you can be focused and you’re, you know, creating some content about, you know, something you wanna inspire moms or whatever.

Yeah. And you’re like, and here I am, like not paying attention to my kids. And we’ve all been there like, as much as I am intentional with that, like. Yeah, so I, I mean, I love how you’re just like, this is what’s in alignment for me. Yeah. And this is what’s not, and you’ve put yourself in a position because you still have your job where it’s like your business gets to still Yeah.

Serve your life and your values.

Hannah Gill: And I, it’s like specifically with social, like I want to post when I feel the need to post. I don’t wanna have a strategy about it. I don’t want it to be like all technical looking at the data. Like I don’t care. I just don’t care. So if I feel like making a reel, awesome.

If I feel like making a post, awesome. If feel like getting into my stories, I’ll do that. If not, I don’t care if I’m not on Instagram for five months, like yeah, I just don’t. I don’t feel like I have to do it. It’d be different if the majority of like my sales and business were coming from that, then I would feel like more pressure to show up there.

But they’re not, and I, I know they’re

Emily Hirsh: not. Yeah. I mean, you’re kind of following like, okay, this is what’s working. This is what feels like. I think when you have that limited energy and time that you can put into your business too, which like kids do that having a job and kids does that, it’s like, then you have to make sure that.

Everything you put into your business is actually gonna move the needle. Whereas, you know, I think there’s sometimes entrepreneurs and even I, yeah, well I started right with kids. So it’s like if you don’t have kids and you’re building your business, you’ve got 12 hours a day that you know that you can just kind of like try a bunch of things.

And again, there’s nothing right or wrong, but when you have limited time and energy truly to put into your business, you’ve gotta be like, this better be moving the needle, or I’m not doing it.

Hannah Gill: And I think that has been one of the. Biggest blessings that I thought was like a curse for me because I’ve had to narrow down to like, what are the absolute necessities that I need to work on to make this business work?

Because I only work on my business. I mean now even less, but I was only working like 10 to 15 hours a week, which when you have full-time job and kids like, that’s seems like a lot. Now it’s probably like. Five to 10, if I’m being honest. So like the biggest part was just making the offers. That’s where most of my time went, was making my offers.

But now that those are done, it’s like a big time chunk is gone. So I knew like I had to only focus on what was necessary. And when I first started, I was trying to do anything and everything I possibly could. So it took me a while to figure out, okay, what’s actually necessary for me to be doing to make this work?

So if I do ever get to the point where I quit my job, then I know that I can make my business work in 15 hours a week. Which is great. So

Emily Hirsh: that’s so awesome.

Hannah Gill: Yeah.

Emily Hirsh: What about you as a person? I always say having a business is the biggest personal development journey we can go on. Mm-hmm. How do you feel like you’ve changed since starting your business?

Hannah Gill: I feel like, so I’ve always been. And I, I started my business basically at the same time I became a mom essentially. But I’ve always been the type of person that’s very type a very, like, I have to do things because they’re expected of me. Like I never really did things because I just wanted to do them.

It was, okay, this is gonna look good on a college application. This is gonna look good on a job application. I joined clubs and did volunteer work just because, oh, this is what you have to do to be successful, right? So I’ve always been that type of person who always listened to authority, did things that were expected of me and just never did things for me.

And basically since not just motherhood, but business in general, I’ve just learned too. That I don’t have to do that anymore. I wanna do things because I want to do them. And what my definition of what you wouldn’t say success would be is more like internally motivated now versus externally. ’cause it was always just checking off boxes for other people and that external success and people looking, thinking highly of me and that type of thing.

So I’ve definitely become much more like relaxed than that, but I want. To do things because I want to do them and because I’m looking to myself for the success and approval versus other people,

Emily Hirsh: not like ex. It sounds like external achievements is what kind of drove you Yeah. For a lot of your life. And then you, you had the like the breakdown and that January of like refund and I feel like so often we have to have those.

Moments of the, the, I guess rock bottom or like hit those points where then we are like, okay, I’m gonna do this a different way. Yeah. And you kind of had that experience of like chasing those achievements so hard that, I mean, you can only for so long work a full-time job, have young kids and spend 15, 20 hours a week of business.

That’s a lot

Hannah Gill: because I was, I’m always the type of person that if I start something, like I need to finish it and I need to finish it. Well, and I needed to do it. Like, perfectly, perfectly. And at that point I, like, my main concern was like, what are other people gonna think if this fails? Like, I’ve tried this.

And that was another big thing was like, if I quit my job and it fails, like that’s gonna suck and that’s gonna look horrible on me. But now I just, I just. I don’t care. I just do do what I wanna do because I wanna do it and doesn’t matter what anyone else expects or thinks I should do. And I just do what feels right to me in the moment, even if it’s not like what the norm is for other people.

So

Emily Hirsh: what would you go back and tell Hannah three years ago?

Hannah Gill: Oh gosh. That it’s okay to dream big, but that what you’re wanting. It doesn’t have to come right now. Like there is time for it. There’s still time. It’s, it may come in two years, it may come in five years, it may come in two months. But I was just under the expectation of like, if this doesn’t happen now, then it’s never going to happen.

And now I know different that it will happen on its own time when it’s meant to happen. So not trying to. To make it happen all at once.

Emily Hirsh: Yeah. And appreciating the journey and the process a lot more than, than just focused on that kind of destination. Do you still feel like you have this big dream of having a big business and leaving your job?

Or are you like unsure on that?

Hannah Gill: I would say I’m, I’m more unsure on it than I was before. I never want. Like it’s because I know now I feel like there’s more freedom in having like the extra side income with like my current job. Like if my business could just pay for some extra vacations every year, I would, I would be 100% happy with that.

Like if I could take a few extra vacations with my family, because especially right now in this season of life, there’s nothing more important to me than just being with my family. And if that means that a business like growing a business so large that it takes away from that because I’m so focused on that, I don’t want that.

So I’m very unsure, but I’m not like set in stone either way. I’m just open to whatever happens and however that growth comes. So

Emily Hirsh: yeah, I love it. I mean, you’re very aligned in like where you are in this season with your kids and as a mom and then. What that means for what? What your business and what you can put into your business.

What would you say are like the biggest lessons business-wise you’ve learned as an entrepreneur? Like in terms of the marketing and the actual like tactics in business when if someone’s listening in, like they’re newer?

Hannah Gill: Yeah. I would say don’t be so. Dead set on doing something a certain way just because like a mentor or coach told you to do it this way.

One of the biggest things that’s been helpful for me is having mentors and coaches, but having multiple in a way that fits what you’re wanting and not just following the exact strategy that’s one person gives you, because that may work for them. That may work for you in a season that may not work for you all the time.

So be willing to try different things. To see what works best for you and your business, because it’s not gonna look the same for everybody. But also not just trying different things like in a haphazard way and trying it once. Like, oh, that doesn’t work, so it’s never gonna work. So try different things, but try them multiple times too, if that makes sense.

Not being afraid to try different things and not being afraid of something not working. Because I feel like. The quote unquote failures or the things that don’t work. Are the biggest lessons to get us to something that does actually work. So just not being afraid of just trying everything you can.

Emily Hirsh: Yeah, it’s so true. Especially in the beginning, trying a bunch of things like trying to fail. I say, you know, like, I don’t think you could actually fail to that term of what people think failure is, but trying things and not having them work is how we learn and how we get the feedback of what, what will work and what doesn’t work.

Hannah Gill: Yeah, because one of the, like a big thing too, like I could have done another webinar launch for this launch back in May, and it could have turned out completely differently. Like, I don’t know, I won’t know because I didn’t do it, but if I would’ve just kept going. With what I thought was the right way to launch something, then it could have ended up way differently.

And I did what felt best to me at the time, regardless of what other people were telling me to do. So

Emily Hirsh: that is such an important part of business, and that’s like a big theme in my events and retreats is like, you already know you, you have the answers. And when I look at, you know, my interview on here like.

Really successful business owners and most stories start with, I broke the rules. I did what people said wasn’t gonna work, like I went against X, Y, Z and then created the success. But yet so many of us, you know, myself included, you can get caught in this trap of like, let me chase what other people are saying is working and I need something outside of myself.

And while yes, like absolutely having mentors getting perspective. So valuable. You still have to run it through the filter of, is this gonna work for me? Is it in alignment with me? Is this set up setting me up for success based on my skills and what I know works? And for you, like you’ve got this unique in-person kind of edge to your business and the Facebook groups and the community.

And so following that led to a super successful launch, whereas. Trying to force, like it has to be a webinar, it has to be this type of a live launch wasn’t working for you.

Hannah Gill: Yeah, and I think also like every, when I first started out, when people were talking about transitioning from a full-time job to a business, it was like, give yourself an end date.

Give yourself six months or a year, whatever that may look like, and set a date on the calendar. And that just felt so, so much pressure and so much force to me to do it that way. And I’m like, I’m still in my job and. I’m still doing my business and if it comes, it comes. If it doesn’t, it doesn’t, but I, I feel like if you’re in that position of trying to, I know everyone’s situation’s gonna be different, but if you’re in that position of trying to go from a full-time job to a business, like sometimes depending on what you wanna do with your business, the income from your full-time job can help you keep running your business.

Yeah. So don’t feel like you have to rush. To make that leap unless you just have like a ton of capital behind you to start your business or something. So, yeah, I mean that’s a lot of

Emily Hirsh: people’s story. Even Mallory, who I’ve featured a lot she was wait waitressing tables when she started her business for a while, like even after she didn’t still like need the money, but just to not have the pressure.

Of my business now has to carry all of my bills. She kept doing that and then built up her business to when she’s like, I kind of wish I quit earlier, but I like stayed doing that for a while. Yeah, and there’s no one way to do something. There’s no one way to start a business. Like, and I love doing these interviews because.

Every story’s unique, and then every, like, there’s this success that happens from all of these unique stories. And like, there’s common threads and there’s principles and things that I feel like most people do, but there is no one right way. And we take it so serious and we think like, you know, there has to be this right way.

And that’s our brain trying to protect us and keep us on the right path as a, as a logical person. But. Yeah. Like there is not a right way to do something.

Hannah Gill: Yeah. It’s all just however works for you and it’s gonna look different. It’s gonna look different in each season too. So it’s not gonna, just because something’s working right now doesn’t mean it’s gonna work in five years.

So right now, like what I am thinking about how my business and life’s gonna look, it could be completely different five years from now. And that’s okay. That’s

Emily Hirsh: well, I mean, yeah. You’re having a, a baby like that changes a lot of things. Adding another kid, like then your priorities shift and Yeah.

Different seasons totally. Yeah. Anything else you feel like we didn’t cover in this conversation that you wanna mention?

Hannah Gill: I don’t think like a business related, but around the same time I started working with Embodied, I also started CrossFit, which is like another, like similar thing we have. And common I’m not.

Like a big CrossFit athlete or anything like that. I was just such in a bad mental and physical health point. I was like working out at home and that just became too much and too stressful and I wasn’t disciplined enough. I was changing laundry between sets. So then I, I joined a CrossFit gym and.

That’s been wonderful. And like I already have plans for after I have the baby on like getting back into things and starting going to group classes. ’cause right now I just do the like one-on-one personal training. So that is also definitely something that’s huge. Character builder as CrossFits.

Yeah.

Emily Hirsh: Well, and prioritizing your health is so important. I mean. However that looks for you, you know, and someone listening it, it has to be above your business. Yeah. Because you know when you’re a parent and when you grow a business and then you have a following, I think it’s a responsibility that you take care of yourself mentally, emotionally, physically, so that you can actually show up the best version of you.

Yeah. It. It’s like, I get it. It’s easy for that to be the thing that goes, unfortunately for people, but it’s be, that was the first thing to go for me.

Hannah Gill: Yeah. I was focused on work, my kids, and then my business, and I was up until 2:00 AM every night. I wasn’t sleeping. I was eating crap because I was just like grabbing whatever would work at the desk or at Applebee’s or whatever, and.

I was like, this is not okay. Like, okay, my, I’m working on my business a lot. I’m cranking out content, but I feel like crap and I need to not feel that way. So I was like, I’ll take some time out of my business to sleep and exercise.

Emily Hirsh: Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I get it. Like I, I definitely had a season of that too, like when my kids were really young, even though health is such a priority for me, I would too, like not eat.

Mm-hmm. Be like breastfeeding and grabbing snacks to them, starving in between calls and you know, as you, as you gain back time, you can put more time into it. But I, one thing I teach that we may or may not do at the event, but is like a ceiling and a floor. So. On the hardest days in business and in life.

Like what’s the, what’s the floor of your physical health? Is it like a 10 minute walk and then you’ve got your, your ceiling? Like, on my good days when everything’s going well and I’ve got the time I thought I would have, you know, for me it’s two hours of training right now. What is that ceiling? What is that for?

Because then we go from every day I have to do a workout and then when I skip a day, I skip four days ’cause I missed a day, you know? And I fell off the wagon to. My physical health is a non-negotiable every day, but sometimes that might look like a 10 minute walk. Yeah, right. Something that you can do and then what’s the ceiling in the floor for your eating and.

Mindset, whatever, like having that, someone taught me that a couple of, I don’t know, three, four years ago. And I love that concept because I think that we’re, so much of us are like all in, right? And then when we don’t do something perfect, we just are like, well, screw it. Like I’ll restart next week. So if that’s helpful for someone in a season of building young kids where you’re like, I don’t see how I could prioritize, you know, an hour a day of CrossFit.

Maybe it’s a 10 minute walk.

Hannah Gill: Yeah. Just doing whatever you need to do to. Keep with your goals, but not like burn yourself out either.

Emily Hirsh: Yeah. And it’s all decisions. It’s like what’s the non-negotiables? Yep.

Hannah Gill: And the nice thing, I mean specifically for where I go, like I could bring my kids if I need to. So like, oh, that’s, they have daycare, be they, yeah, they have like childcare.

I mean, my daughter just kinda sits on a mat and the sec like, and it watches me. But like, that’s how I know, like, okay, I can still go to the gym and if needed, she can be there with me. So that’s a way that, I mean, that’s a good. Thing for her to see too is like me being active. ’cause then she knows that too.

But yeah, just, just making intentionally setting all your priorities in a good order for whatever aligns with you and your family is, is so big. And for me, my family is number one. And then. Everything else comes after that. So

Emily Hirsh: Yeah. And you’re embodying that for sure right now, which is so beautiful.

Like you really are in alignment with that, with your actions and

Hannah Gill: 100%. Yeah. And it feels very just like, like I’m breathing.

Emily Hirsh: I, I feel that energy from you. Like just way more. Yeah. Just appreciating the now and where

Hannah Gill: you’re at. ’cause I know in several years my kids are probably gonna not even wanna be around me.

So. All kids go through that phase and I can dive like hardcore to the business then when they don’t even care to be around me.

Emily Hirsh: Yeah, and that’s perfect. Well, thank you so much for making it out to the studio. We’re about to go into the live event tomorrow, which I am

Hannah Gill: so excited for. I’m very excited.

Because I did not get to come back in, back in January when I wanted to, so I’m glad I’m able to make it this time and I’m so glad you had me on the podcast too. So,

Emily Hirsh: yeah, thank you. Oh, wait, before we go, where can everyone find you? Okay, I should have asked that question. Yeah, so,

Hannah Gill: My website is the hannahgill.com.

My podcast is Motherhood Flow and it’s on all, all podcast platforms, Instagram, which I’m slowly moving away from, but. It’ll still be there Is @TheHannahGill.

Emily Hirsh: Cool. We’ll link to all that. It sounds like your podcast is like your main form of content for people. That’s my, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Amazing. Well, thank you.

We will link to all that. Highly recommend you check out Hannah. I’m excited to see the next season for you and next part of your journey. Thank you so much, Emily. Thank you.