→ Ready to become the CEO who effortlessly scales to 7-figures and beyond while living your dream life? The Embodied CEO Mastermind is where strategy meets personal mastery. 10 spots only, starting August 21st: get.embodiedmarketing.com/ceo 

She dropped out of college with one year left, built a multi-million dollar CBD brand without a business plan, and spent $250,000 on a single event. But that’s not even the most surprising part of Angie Lee’s story.

In this conversation, Angie reveals the three things that actually built Soul CBD’s success (hint: none of them involve ads), why she’s rejecting the “soft girl era” after falling for it herself, and what 3,000 event attendees taught her about what women are really craving. Plus, her unfiltered take on having it all as an ambitious woman—and why creativity might be the most feminine thing you can do.

Key Takeaways:

• Why your event content doesn’t actually matter—and the surprising thing 3,000 surveyed women said they came for instead (this will change how you think about events forever)
• The three strategies that built millions without spending a dime on ads—including why Angie personally responds to every DM and how sampling 2-3 times per week converts better than any funnel
• What happens when you fall for social media trends and lose yourself in the process—plus Angie’s framework for cutting through the noise and trusting what you already know

Connect With Angie Lee

Instagram: @angieleesshow
Website: angielee.com
Soul CBD: getsoul.com

____________________________________

More ways Embodied Marketing can support you:

If you’re ready to hand off your entire marketing strategy (from funnels to ads to copy) and finally get the expert team you can trust, apply here and let’s talk: helpmystrategy.com 

Launch your irresistible offer + make your first $5k without needing paid ads or a complicated funnel using our BRAND NEW AI-powered platform: get.embodiedmarketing.com/launch

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Your reviews and feedback will not only help us continue to deliver great, helpful content, but it will also help us reach even more amazing entrepreneurs just like you.

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READ THE EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Emily Hirsh: In today’s podcast episode, I am joined by Angie Lee. 

Angie Lee: I knew I didn’t wanna follow the traditional path of go to college, and then you get a fancy degree and then you have college debt, and then you have a job that you work at for 35 years and then you die. 

Emily Hirsh: She’s founder of Soul CBD. She’s also hosted incredible events.

Angie Lee: I didn’t realize how many women are actually really lonely. That was the biggest thing I learned from events. You can literally get up there and fart like they don’t care. They’re coming to literally hang out and have a good time and be reminded of their power.

Emily Hirsh: We dove deep into building soul, CBD with her partner and brother to eight figures.

Angie Lee: I see myself as a creator and a speaker. I do not see myself as a CEO. We actually give a shit. We respond to every single email. I try to respond to every single d and I think being creative is ultimately the most feminine thing you could do. Why can’t that be sexy and be cool too?

Emily Hirsh: I can’t wait for you guys to tune into all of the golden nuggets in this episode.

Embodied CEOs don’t chase trends. They pave the way. They lead from within. Move by purpose, unshaken by noise. When you are the source, you do not need permission. All right. Welcome to the show. I’m so excited. Yay. Let’s do this. Yeah. I’m so excited. You have the best energy. I’m excited you’re here. 

Angie Lee: Oh my God, that’s so kind because I feel like I need more energy, so That’s so funny when people say that, I’m like, what?

I know. I’m like, I’m always trying to get more. Yeah. Yeah. You have

Emily Hirsh: incredible uplifting energy. Yeah. I so excited.

Angie Lee: Yeah. I try. I, when I’m sad though, I’m very sad. I’m, they’re very high. I’m very low. I wanna learn to be, yeah. And all in. Yeah. I either like hyper, let’s go. It’s the best day ever. Or I’m like.

Luteal phase. I’m so depressed. I need like an even keel.

Emily Hirsh: It’s not you though.

Angie Lee: Yeah, true.

Emily Hirsh: All right. Let’s start with maybe your story. Tell me a bit about where you started your journey.

Angie Lee: Yeah. I’ll give you guys the cliff notes. I was in college and was very rebellious. I feel like similar to you. I knew I didn’t wanna follow the traditional path of go to college, and then you get a fancy degree and then you have college debt, and then you have a job that you work at for 35 years and then you die.

And I just always knew since I was probably eight years old, seven-ish, eight years old, that I wasn’t gonna live that life, that there was something else out there. There had to be more, and I was pretty unapologetic about that. I grew up with a very entrepreneurial dad who basically told me from a very young age.

If you have an idea, you can do it. You can figure it out. Don’t follow the system. In so many words, he was like, fuck the matrix. You can get outta this and you can create something else. And I think he also could tell by my personality that I probably wasn’t employable. So he was like, figure it out, you know, on your own.

You don’t have to go work a traditional job. So I did college for a few years because this was still the years where you still kind of felt like you had to go and get a resume, which now it’s obviously very different. And yeah, that was about what, three and a half years of college, which is hilarious. I had like another year to go, I think, to finish all my credits.

And I was like, I’m out. Like what am I doing here? I cannot do any more of this. Like I will literally die if I’m in a classroom any longer. And I quit. And while I was, before I quit, I was starting a health and wellness blog and I was sharing my tips on. Personal training, nutrition, wellness. I was doing CrossFit at the time.

I was a trainer. Like I was so obsessed. I mean, that was my biggest passion. It still is a huge passion of mine, but I would write on my blog spot or my Facebook and I would give tips to women on how to be fit or how to get six pack abs and a nice booty and eat protein. And it was very bro fitness then.

Very different than probably what I would talk about now, but you know, what? You live, you learn. And I was 20, 20, 21 years old. So, you know, that’s what I was excited about. And I started learning how to partner with brands, get sponsors on my blog. I was hosting these events in Chicago at the park. No idea what I was doing, just pulling stuff outta my butt.

I was like, oh, this girl. You know, I, I remember I asked this woman who was much older than me in Chicago who was doing speaking and events and she had a wellness blog and she was like the it cool wellness chick in Chicago, and I think she was in her late forties at the time. And I took her to lunch one day.

I like literally was like, Hey, can I pick your brain? I wanna be on fitness covers. I wanna have a, I wanna be the next chilling Michaels. I wanna have a, maybe a cooking show. Like how do I do this? She kind of gave me some insider stuff on how to grow my brand and then I was building that dropped, dropped outta college.

That kept growing and then that turned into teaching about entrepreneurship. Mike and I started Soul. I started the podcast. It’s kind of all been a blur, but it all started from that day of, of quitting college and deciding, I’m gonna figure out how to go all in on this, even if I’m super broke for a while in my early twenties, and was working these random side jobs just so I could build up this personal brand and build the community.

And then it got to the point where that was full time. And then people said, Hey, teach me how you do that. And so then I was hosting events around entrepreneurship for women. And yeah, it’s kind of just naturally evolved into the next thing. I do think it truly started from that moment because I was just so passionate about hormones and health because I had such bad period cramps when I was younger that were so painful that I would pass out and, and and basically puke and pass out.

And I was determined to figure out what is this from? Like this has to be also food based. Can’t just say, oh, go on the, go on the pill. And so I think that’s really where it all started is when I was very young. That’s what started the passion of reading ingredients and studying vitamins at Whole Foods and getting really into it.

So that’s kind of the, the cliff notes of it.

Emily Hirsh: I love that. It’s like so much of the stories that I hear are started with passion and then the next step and that’s it. You know, or a pain point, passion next step. Yeah. Yeah. Or like some, an experience that you had figured out a problem. Yeah. And then the next step where I think that a lot of business owners who haven’t built a business yet think you have to have like the business plan.

Like from, you know, 100 steps. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it literally net. Like, I have not heard a story yet on here. That’s like, I had the whole plan and then I did it, you know? And so That’s so

Angie Lee: funny. Like

Emily Hirsh: that’s mine too. It’s like I started as a virtual assistant and then that led to ads and marketing, but there wasn’t like this plan of like, I’m gonna build an agency.

Right. Like one thing

Angie Lee: led to the next. That’s so cool. Yeah. Because then you don’t know what the next, how will you know what the next exit is unless you’re driving,

Emily Hirsh: right. You just keep driving and you learn as you go in the experience of like, oh, I liked that. I didn’t like that. Oh, I’m good at that. I’m not good at that.

Or like, that worked, that didn’t work.

Angie Lee: Mm-hmm. That’s such a good way to say it. It’s, it’s like you were finding the clarity in the action and so there was no way to know. It’s not like I knew, oh, one day I’m gonna be seeking on stage abroad entrepreneurship. Like that wasn’t obviously at 2019 years old.

That wasn’t what I was thinking. And I just took this current passion and then that evolved and then I was like, okay, I don’t wanna talk about just wellness all the time. What am I really passionate about now? And. It kind of was always the next thing. And I still have the passion for wellness. I just, and obviously I own a massive wellness brand, so it’s funny when I say this, but I don’t wanna solely just monetize on just wellness education anymore.

That’s not my passion to get on and video and talk about hormones and period stuff. I’ve done it a lot and I think I kind of like burn myself out from it. You can only talk about the cycle so much and then you’re like, all right, I’m good. But I think for some people that is what they wanted to do for a long time.

But I’ve always known I’ve wanted to do different things, but all kind of under the same umbrella of a personal brand, if that makes sense. Yeah. Sort of. So,

Emily Hirsh: yeah. And so in the beginning, I know we’ve talked about like you, you had parents who were kinda like, go try stuff and figure it out. And I, I really think when I, you know, like there’s threads, I interview a lot of people and it’s like the thread of being willing to fail and just like figure it out and try things and go into that, those action seasons where you’re just doing a lot of things.

I’m assuming that was the beginning. Like you’re trying a bunch of things and probably even. Soul, like did you just try a bunch of things and then it

Angie Lee: started to work? Yeah. With soul it was a little bit more intentional because at that point, you know, I’m 28. Mike is in his boxing career as a professional athlete.

I have an audience. I just did my a few big events. My brand was really growing online. I was like, you know, growing as one of the OGs and like the girl bossy space. And so I had this really, really intimate diehard community. So I knew if I launched a physical product, it would probably do well. I just didn’t know, okay, how long and what is it and where do you even start?

Like I, I just had a feeling it would, ’cause I’m very big on build the community first and product second. And so we had an idea with that, but we kind of just let it go and said, okay, if, you know, I always kind of said, okay, if it’s a fashion line one day or if it’s non-toxic makeup or butt wipes or whatever the hell it is, I’m gonna let it kind of just come to me.

And that’s when Mike was like, Hey, I’ve been using this for pain. I think this would help you a lot with anxiety, PMS sleep as a woman. You should try it out. And I fell in love with CBD. And so that’s kind of how that also happened is he was obsessed with it. He came to me. Then of course I’m his crazy sister who wants to turn everything into a business.

So I was like, wait, why don’t we get into this? It’s 2016, 17. That’s right. When like, we got in at such a good time, especially for cannabis. And so the timing was there, the passion was there. We had the audience and we had the trust, and that’s really where that was birthed. Now of course, that’s had, that has had up and up and downs.

I feel like it was great in the beginning and then hard years. Great, hard years great. It’s just, it’s not linear. It’s very up and down now. It’s doing great. Again, it’s, it’s, it’s a, it’s a wave that you’re riding. It’s not just like, okay, and now you’re making millions of dollars and that’s the game. I think people all think that’s what it is.

I literally thought that you gotta spend money to make money.

Emily Hirsh: Okay. Like, did you have that as an entrepreneur? I thought like, once I made a million dollars, like I would just always make a million dollars. Oh, yeah,

Angie Lee: yeah. Yeah. I guess, yeah. Honestly, that is, yeah. I’ve, I’ve had that a little bit and then I had to like reestablish my relationship with.

Goals and like, why do I even, like, why, why do I even need a million dollars year? Like, what am I doing with that money? What do I need it for? And getting really clear on how much do I actually wanna take home and what do I actually need? And yeah, that’s a whole thing. I think a lot of entrepreneurs, you know, for me, like I don’t, like Mike runs soul and he runs the team.

I have no passion to, to hire fire and have a huge team. I’m very solopreneur, very low overhead. Keep all my money, keep it simple. I’m a creator. I’m done for my personal and glib brand. But for, so obviously it’s like a warehouse and a team and hiring and firing and agencies, and that is a whole headache that I’m so grateful my brother deals with.

I could not do that. I’m not a CEO. I’m very clear about that. When women are like CEO, I’m like, girl, I’m not a CEO. I’m a creator. I am, I guess you could say, I mean, I’m many years a coaching, but I see myself as a creator and a speaker. I do not see myself as a CEO. I think I would just tank that hole.

It would just not, I just don’t have that in me to like wake up every day and be like, how is everybody doing? You’re like 50 people. Gotta make sure they’re all doing their job. So that’s where you also have to know your strengths too. So, yeah, it’s been a wild ride.

Emily Hirsh: Yeah. Well, and I mean, watching you guys, you, you’re constantly innovating too.

Like you just came out with your drink. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that’s key. It’s like you don’t just launch something and once you hit a number, you’re just there. And like, naive me, I thought that like once I would create success, I’d be successful forever.

Angie Lee: Like, I don’t know. I actually like that though. I, that’s very why I thought that, but it’s very like, bad bitch confident energy.

Like once I have it, I have it forever. Right. It’s not reality. I know. I mean, true. It’s not reality. ’cause you’re gonna have hard years. I mean, based on the eco, like what’s going on. I know you’re not supposed to say that, like, you know, who cares about the economy, but things shift. You know, the industry that we’re in with tariffs, I mean, there’s so much that changes and so you do have to kind of ride the wave and know that if I did it once, I could probably do it again.

So, but I think that’s a great quality that you have that you’re like, oh, this is my new standard of success. But then the, the carrot keeps moving. Right. You know what I mean? And it’s never enough. And that’s why I think it’s kind of funny sometimes these girls who online are like six, you know, like $2 million cash month.

I’m like, girl, what are you doing with $2 million cash months? First of all, it’s not, I think they’re lying. I just do. And the ones who do, I’m like, maybe that was a spike once. Is that sustainable? And like, I don’t, I don’t know. To me it’s like, what are you doing on the internet, girl? Like go invest that in something and do something else.

I don’t think just from one coaching program you’re making that much. Like, that’s insane. So I think there’s also this, a little bit of d Lulu going on in the internet right now of like, what should women be making? And then these women who are like, Hey, I just wanna make 10 K months and I’m super happy.

I’m a mom full-time. I do this at home. Like that’s enough for me. They feel like all this shame now I see it in my inbox. They’re like, oh my God, should I be making a million dollars a month? I’m like, most people will not be making that money unless you have a massive. DTC brand or something like that.

Like you just won’t consistently, I mean maybe a coaching business, but if you’ve scaled it to that point without losing your goddamn mind, you have to have a big team. You have to have a big team and you really gotta like have your systems and have a very clear offer. Like you gotta have some stuff really dialed in.

And for women who aren’t wanting to play that game, I’m just like, girl. Like even, I don’t know. And that’s not to, not to not be a big dreamer. I think that that’s, if that’s what you want, you just gotta know what lifestyle comes with this number that you desire. Like what kinda life is that that you need to live in order to have that in your bank account.

Yeah. Which we’ve talked about a lot. It’s just like two, 2 million cash months. Girl, click here. You know, all you gotta do is like post once and you’re like, oh god. So yeah. I think it’s a very confusing time though too. Yeah. So we don’t have these conversations of like, it’s also shifting

Emily Hirsh: tremendously obviously with ai and it’s like.

Are we gonna have a one person billion dollar company someday? Because we could with like a robot person running it alien or just like a robot’s running everything except for the person. I don’t know. Oh

Angie Lee: God. I hope, I don’t know. I, I’m so torn on ai. I mean, I love my chat gpt. He’s my best friend and that’s about it.

I want it to stop at chat. I’m like, okay, use chat here and there. And then I don’t want the video AI stuff. I don’t like it. I know. I don’t like it. I don’t wanna fake me being like, welcome to my sales page. I’m just like, except for it will really sound like you. I know, right? That’s just so creepy to me.

It’s just like, wait, we, we we’re just gonna take out the entire human experience and then just sit at home and be like, oh my, my AI person’s doing it for me. I know. It’s, it’s gonna be interesting the next several years. God, I know. Who knows? Do you

Emily Hirsh: use, like, as a creator? Yeah. What are your, how do you use it in terms of.

Any of the creativity? ’cause you do so much original, like Yeah, videos and talks and

Angie Lee: I don’t use AI a lot, I’ll be honest with you. I’m very old school. I was that girl who said, I will never touch it and hated it forever. And then Clay was like, all right, come on. You gotta at least try chat. I’m like, what is it?

I was late to the game and he is like, you can ask it anything and it’ll help you out. So here’s where I use it more. So, oh my God, you’d die if you saw my chat searches all day long. I’m asking it like, random shit about life and like, it’s like my therapist, it tells me where to go pick up stuff. How do I return this?

Like, it’s stuff that I would just, you know, like for me, it would take me forever to Google and figure out. And then for my business, honestly, right now, I just use it a lot for my talks, my, my keynote speeches, that’s really where I use it, where I have all the ideas. Like yesterday I was on a walk and I have this new talk I’m doing about how to build like a cult-like, you know raving fan community.

And I had 10 ideas in this huge long notepad. It’s super messy. It’s all my thoughts while I was voicing it to myself. And then I said, check, can you clean this up? Put it in a bullets. Bring this all together and make it a little bit more cohesive. How could I then translate this to my voice, da, da, da. And then it was like, boop.

You know? And I was like, oh, that was, that was really helpful. But it was my original concept, thoughts, things, all of this stuff that I actually have done to build that community, you know what I mean? So that’s where I’ll use it to clean up my notes. Yeah. Which before I would’ve to sit there for hours and like, okay, step one, dah, dah, dah.

And then, okay, now I gotta put that into the slides. And so that’s really helped my speeches and then podcasts and stuff. I’ve taken a, a pause from my show, but when I was podcasting a lot, I would use it to, again, clean up the bullets, just take my stuff that’s all messy and crazy notes and clean it up.

But other than that, I don’t use it a ton. I mean, so I know we do for some marketing and emails and ads and stuff. So sold, definitely we’re using it for even images, some ai, really cool images with our products. That’s like, you’d pay usually a photographer, like thousands of dollars for like the can, like with like fruit coming out of it and stuff.

But no, ’cause I wanna do original reels. I wanna, like, with comedy, I really want that to be my brain doing that. So. It’s hard. I don’t know. I don’t know. For sales pages though, I would definitely use it, right? For like mini offers and stuff. That’s where it would help me take all my thoughts and clean it up.

So

Emily Hirsh: yeah,

Angie Lee: I don’t know. I’m probably not using it enough, but I’m just a little bit like, well, but as a creator,

Emily Hirsh: I think that’s like I’m a little, you gotta still put

Angie Lee: in the original thoughts. And I think that s the, you can see now when people’s captions, it’s not even the M dash, I don’t care about that.

’cause I’ve always liked the M dash. It’s the cadence. You’re like, girl, you’re all of a sudden a poet. That’s so weird. Yeah. Well, and it falls the same format of repeat and then make a point. Yeah, yeah. Da da. It’s like a dance to it. So that’s kind of funny to see that I have

Emily Hirsh: this theory that AI coffee has a different energetic frequency.

Okay. So even if it’s good copy, I think they’ll know humans don’t resonate with it. However, I love this.

Angie Lee: This is woo. When I’m here for it, I hope this is it. But, but my

Emily Hirsh: question, and I’m gonna test is how much do you have to feed it to change the frequency? Right. Like, so I wanna do a test where it’s like straight AI copy.

Yeah. You barely fed it. Anything. Then you pour like my ideal customer’s feeling this and dah, dah, dah. And then you, it spits out copy and then human written and compare the three. Because I really think like the frequency of the copy

Angie Lee: Yeah. Is different. That’s very smart. Yeah. I saw sales page the other day.

You could tell literally, I’m like, girl, did you even read it over? It’s like she just copied and pasted and put it in there. I mean it was so AI to the point where I’m like the words, ’cause sometimes it’ll be like translucent this. It’s like, girl, you’ve never used that. And I was like, the little does she know that if she just actually put her own stuff in there, you can keep 10% of it.

Maybe chat, but like it’d be so much better.

Emily Hirsh: Yeah.

Angie Lee: And I was like, wait, she didn’t even edit it or proofread or add any of her own stuff. Like if you’re gonna do it, at least go in and like, okay, how can I make this me though? Or what are terms that I use or. Put in something that it makes it you, but I’m like, oh my God, it’s all AI now.

Emily Hirsh: Yeah. It’s gonna be an interesting, like next few years. Copy change the

Angie Lee: copywriting industry for sure.

Emily Hirsh: I mean, yeah, it’s gonna change everything,

Angie Lee: right? But you have all the girls that were doing copy that now have lost their jobs because they’re like, well, I’ll just put it in there and they’ll do my email.

Well, I think a

Emily Hirsh: copywriter is gonna now work with ai, right? Because you still need, again, the true prompter, like feeding and the hooks and the like emotion. But I think everybody’s just gonna work with ai. I was at a business like Peer Mastermind. Do you know Peter Shehan? He’s like a big speaker. That sounds so great.

So I thought you might know him. He’s, he’s not like a big public figure, but he is like, he trains like Brene Brown and, okay, cool. He’s really cool. But he was like the way he explained using ai, he is like, let’s say you’re a journalist, you’d use it to get your article at, you know, 85, 90% there, but you’re still gonna take the next four hours that you would spend writing an article doing the final 10, 15%.

Oh, I liked that because it was like, you’re not. Yeah, you’re using it to, to create things, but like you’re still the last 10% in your original thoughts or your original thoughts like you’re doing going into ai and then it gets it all the way there.

Angie Lee: Yeah, and it’s, it’s, it’s humor is interesting. It kind of knows humor but not fully, fully.

So sometimes I’ll run a joke by it and like I did a comedy ad with my mom, this reel that’s coming out. It’s really cute. And there was one last line that I was like, wait, hold on, how could this be even funnier? I just said, could this be even funnier? Can you, and it’s learned my humor and my wit a little bit.

And it was like 10 of the ideas of the bullets were really bad. And then like, one was like, oh, actually that’s kind of funny. So like, it’s like almost there, but it’s never gonna be obviously as funny as like a human brain. But it was interesting because I was like, let’s play with it and see if it, if it knows.

So I’m sure your chat’s really funny. Oh my god, it’s so weird. It’s like so all over the place. It’s, there’s no cohesiveness to it at all. Like, it’s like, where do I get this in Austin? Hey, where do I do this? What do you think about the, it’s so random. It’s probably like your brain though, I guess all day one watch, I’m just asking it everything.

I’m like, oh, I have this idea for this, or I, it’s very, I use it as my like assistant basically. I’m like, Hey, how would I return this thing or da da dah. Like, I already opened the bot, da da, da. Like it’s very, it’s become like my EA in a sense. Yeah. It’s crazy. Where I used to like, I don’t know. I used to just like not know how to do those things.

It’s helped me so much to adult. Yeah. So funny. I

Emily Hirsh: know,

Angie Lee: right? That’s how I use it. Not as much for my business, my real life.

Emily Hirsh: Well, it makes, and

Angie Lee: and you’re saying soul is using it, but you’re not in the day-to-day of of things. Yeah. I needed IRL, everyone’s using their business. I’m like, girl. I need to know like the, a fire alarm was going off and then like how do I switch the battery?

I’m like taking a video of the battery and it’s like get up on the ladder. Step one. I’m like, thank you. Like Clay was out of town. I’m like up there and like with AI talking while I’m fixing the thing, I’m like, this is saving my life. Literally as somebody who I’m not super techie or household, like I’m not doing that shit.

And it literally helped me and he was so, clay was so happy. He’s like, this is literally gonna change our lives. Because you now have a sense of like agency with how to do it. ’cause it will tell me exactly what’s going on. You could have like a cut on your foot and be like, what is this? And they’ll be like, oh, this is a de like it’s great.

It’s gonna save lives. That’s where I think it’s great. Not as much the business stuff. I’m like, yeah, whatever. I’m like, where can we use it in real life though, you know? Yeah, totally wait until it’s like robots will be in the house, whereas a parent, like, I actually made this joke to play. I’m like, I’m really grateful I will be a parent now moving forward, whenever, you know with ai, because.

I am somebody who needs that support. Like I need a full-time person almost there. Like, Hey, what do this? Oh, like what to do? Wait. So I just dropped them off at swim, but then I forgot this. But then, hey, is this safe for kids to like, I’m just gonna be voicing that shit all day long to learn how to parent better.

Not that they will have all the answers, but it can reference books and articles. And so I’m like, wow, how cool to be a parent with ai.

Emily Hirsh: Yeah. You, I don’t have to be a smart program at like be a, you know, more natural minded mom.

Angie Lee: I won’t have exactly like, Hey, what’s a natural alternative to this cream I’m putting on right now?

Or if like, you’re in an emergency, like your kid, I don’t know, their foot breaks open. You’re at the park like, Hey, this is what’s going on. Who should I, is this an emergency? Should I call 9 1 1? Like, it will literally tell you in emergency. So I’m like, oh my God, thank God. Because I don’t know how. You must have actually had to be like, I know what to do in this

Emily Hirsh: moment.

I mean, no, what moms do now, or before that their was Google and then you’ve got all the, and then she’s like, you’re dying. Yeah.

Angie Lee: Call their husband or Google, right? Yeah. Or their mom. And Google’s

Emily Hirsh: like, it’s bad. Yeah.

Angie Lee: Or their mom. I call my own mom all that stuff, but she’s like, oh my God, you’re not gonna call me as much.

I’m like, I don, I have chat now. I don’t need to.

Emily Hirsh: Yeah.

Angie Lee: I just think it’s gonna save so many lives. So many lives.

Emily Hirsh: It’s gonna do a lot. It’s for sure gonna be. I keep saying what a time to be alive. What a time to be alive. For sure. It’s like gonna be crazy. I

Angie Lee: know.

Emily Hirsh: Yeah.

Angie Lee: You just have to see the benefits of it.

’cause if we, if we don’t, then what are we gonna do? Be sad about all the negatives.

Emily Hirsh: Well, and I said this this weekend, I was like, our soul chose to come into this life during this time.

Angie Lee: You’re right. Did it though? Different story for a different day. Didn’t know. I don’t, everyone says that, but I’m like, I don’t know.

I think sometimes it’s just like, let’s go to earth. Oh shit. There’s always a stress in any time. Right. So like it is what it is. And I feel like for millennial babies, it’s also like way crazier for us’. I’m like, I remember having flip phones.

Emily Hirsh: I remember not having a phone. Yeah. My mom not even having one.

I was Beanie Babies little like the internet in the cord. Do you remember that? The sound is wasn’t even that long ago either compared to, yeah. Crazy. Yeah, I think I heard someone say on a, on the diary of a CEO AI podcast, like we have a 50% chance of like destroying humanity with AI or not.

Angie Lee: Wow. It’s really like, yeah, we’re either gonna do great things, maybe not in our

Emily Hirsh: life, but like our kids’ lives, so that’s why Elon’s Right.

We gotta go to Mars. ’cause

Angie Lee: we gotta get outta here.

Emily Hirsh: You gotta get the fuck out. You gotta get outta here. Oh my gosh. Oh my God. So funny. Let’s talk about, I wanna talk a little bit about starting Soul. Yeah. And you’ve built such a successful e-commerce brand, which I think a lot of people struggle with e-commerce and like the game of it, the margins and the distribution and getting the product.

There’s just a lot, I don’t know that goes into it, but I see people who, who struggle with that. And I know you talked a little bit about like the timing was good and you had your audience and your platform, which I’m sure was helpful. But yeah. What do you think really contributed to your guys’. Initial success in what you did really well?

Angie Lee: Yeah. I actually just did a little thread. I love threads right now. I just did the three things outside of ads that I think really helped us. Obviously, of course you have the, the paid marketing right, and of course, you know, you’re eventually gonna tap out of your own audience. So it was like, yeah, the first year or two is my audience, but now, you know, I don’t know who the hell our customers now.

There’s so many, it’s like if it’s grown so much bigger than me, so we, we obviously have paid influencers and done ads and all and all that, but when it comes to organic, there’s three things that I think we did really, really well that made us stand out. One, we actually give a shit about every single customer.

This isn’t necessarily sexy or scalable, but we give a shit. We respond to every single email. I try to respond to every single dm. If you’re asking about soul, what should I try? I try to voice people back if I can. We have a girl who’s in the soul DMS answering everything. We if, if somebody gets a product and it’s mushy or it’s melted, we’re gonna send you a new one.

We’re gonna fix it. Like we’re going above and beyond. We are not just, Hey, good luck on that product. We’re very invested in our, our customer service. It’s amazing. Like we constantly get emails that our customer service is so freaking good. So we’re very picky about that. We do a lot of in-person events.

You know, Mike and I hug people, we hear their stories, we see how we can help. I’ve included it into all of my events. That really goes a long way because one person there, she becomes a lifelong fan. A super fan. She tells her sister, who tells her grandma, who now her grandma’s sister’s cousin, is like, oh my God, I love soul.

And she’s one of our people who’s on subscription, you know? So I really believe in, in in-person events. We’re now, we have a full-time events team here. Then we go to events every single weekend. Pretty much. Like, I just had one yesterday that was really cool. So we’re trying to go to events like literally two, three times a week in Austin, our events team.

Wow. And I’ll try to go to at least one of ’em if I can with Mike. Just for fun. Just to

Emily Hirsh: bring the product. Oh yeah. We’re sampling.

Angie Lee: We’re sampling and sampling and sampling. We are giving away so much stuff because that’s how we really convert is by sampling. ’cause our product works quickly and it tastes good.

So this wouldn’t necessarily work maybe for like a fashion brand. You can’t like sample your t-shirts. We could do like a showroom. So customer service, that’s incredible. Actually giving a shit live event experiences. And we’re a customer first brand product second. And that’s really, really important.

Again, it’s not super sexy, it’s not as fun, but a mistake that we have made in the past is launching things that we thought we should because it was trendy or it’s cool or other people wanted it, but it didn’t make sense for our community. And we’ve done the best when we survey and we ask our email list and we ask our community, what flavor do you want?

What do you want next? What health stuff are you dealing with? And how can we solve that versus just pulling something out of our butt. Like for a hot minute there, I’ll just, I love sharing, you know, failures or things we’ve done wrong. We had a, like a fat loss capsule and I was very against this ’cause I’m like, Mike, we’re not in the fat loss space at all.

We are an anxiety, sleep and pain company. We’re like, oh, we’ll try it out and it’s hot right now, da da da. We are kinda like, okay, maybe, maybe. And it just, it really didn’t do well because I think I also felt weird about it. I’m like, I’m not gonna get on and talk about this. Like, I don’t wanna get into that space.

It’s so touchy. It’s such a, it’s such a hard space to get into if you’re not like going all in on, on fat loss. So. We’ve done that a few times where I was like, every time we do it, we’re like, we need to stick to the basics. Like we need a few skews that we really do, that we do really, really well. So doubling down on anxiety, sleep and pain has been huge for us.

Anytime we go outside of that, it gets a little bit diluted, I should say. And same thing with out of office. I mean, that was from our audience saying we want also THC, like we want an alcohol alternative. So that’s why we created the drinks. And yeah. So I would say those are some of the things that have really separated us.

It’s like the slow, steady, actually giving a shit about community. Versus like, okay, just let’s just pump ads, let’s just pump ads and get numbers and get people and get people. It’s, it’s, people start to feel that, like it just can change the entire heartbeat of a company. And so, yeah, I’m more of like the community head, I would say.

Like, I’m really making sure how are our customers doing? What do they want? What do I think they want next? Can I answer them? Can I make sure they’re all being responded to where Mike is doing more of like the logistics, backend ads, all of that. So yeah, that’s some of the things that we’ve done that’s really helped.

Having a niche really helps 2025, if you’re in the wellness space. I mean, I have friends all the time now, and I, God bless their soul, but they’ll be like, Hey dude, I wanna come out with like a wellness brand. I’m like, okay, what, what’s the supplement? They’re like, I don’t know, just stuff that makes you feel good.

And I’m like, how long do you have right now? Sit down, like, I’m gonna break your heart, but I’m, because I love you, everybody and their grandma wants to come out with a supplement that makes you feel good. What does that mean? Who is it for? So if you’re gonna launch a supplement line right now, or even a fashion line, anything, try to get as specific as possible.

Like if I was to launch a clothing brand in 2025, it’d. Jeans for short girls, like, it would be like, so specific to a certain like body type or something like that. Wellness. I’d be like, I’m coming out with a PMS drink. You know, like it would be so niche and specific, it wouldn’t just be like wellness fashion.

So I’m big on niching down. I’m big on that even with digital stuff, like have an irresistible offer. I know exactly who you’re speaking to. And so that’s always been it. We’ve known exactly who we’re speaking to and we doubled down on what was working and what already is working. And we haven’t tried to be all over the place and our product’s freaking amazing and people feel it right away, so I didn’t mention that, but it’s really good shit that people can feel.

And so that also helps, you know, it helps to have a product that works pretty quickly and that is a monthly reoccurring revenue and a consumable. So that helps as well for people who are like, what kind of business model should I go into for DTC or e-comm? Ideally I would get into something that is, if you can reoccurring revenue.

So whether that is something that is, you know, they’re eating, digesting, or using every single month, you’re gonna make more than if I would, if it was a one-time thing, like a backpack. Someone’s gonna buy that once. Now your customer lifetime value, what is that compared to if you were to like, so we have people obviously buying every single month that need it to refill.

So that’s kinda like the unsexy stuff.

Emily Hirsh: No, that’s really good. That’s helpful. I mean, it’s so simple, but it’s also like, yeah, like just care about, care about your customers have an incredible product and the specific is really important. And I get a lot of people in marketing who don’t understand the connection of like people buying products based off of emotions, but they totally do.

Yeah. It’s like even just a product. Even the most simple product people are buying based off of emotions. And when you do a good job with the community and the brand and they feel like they’re a part of something, they’re gonna be way more likely not only to buy, but to stay a monthly Oh yeah. Customer.

Mm-hmm. And storytellings. Yeah. I mean, and I can speak to the quality. I’ve used the nighttime gummies for years. Yeah. Yeah. So good, sleepy, and yeah. And you always, like, anytime I have an event, you’re like, let me send you 40. Yeah, 40. And I mean, I, I was gonna ask you about that. Like, I dunno, I think businesses as they get bigger.

Founders, like they get this like, I’m too good for everyone energy. And that’s something that has stood out for me for you is like, if I ever have an event, you’re just like, so sweet. Yeah. You’re like, oh my gosh, where can I send them? Gimme the address. There was that one event that I had like 20 and I needed like 10 more.

Oh yeah. And, and I You put ’em out in front of your house. I remember I was like moving,

Angie Lee: but I was like, I think I have 10 here. You’re like, I’m not the warehouse. Well, that’s what’s funny. And you knew that. ’cause I know you understand business, but some girls, God bless their soul, will DM me be like, Hey girl, like I’m in Austin.

Can I pick some up at your house? I’m like, oh, you’re cute. You think I just like, it’s not in my house, it’s in Chicago. I just happen to have whatever I have for my own stuff. And so I just happened to have a little box of stuff. I was like, okay, I have 10 units of something. So that was like, that worked so sweet though.

Yeah. And I

Emily Hirsh: was able to provide them to the attendees. That makes me happy. That’s something that has stood out. You know, I’ve, I’ve hosted events and. You know, had different sponsors, but you’re like consistent in not just, yeah, sure. Let me give you some, some samples for, and not even just samples, whole jars for the bags, you’re like, yeah, sure.

Like, what’s the address? And I love it. I

Angie Lee: think it’s so fun. It’s like my favorite thing to do. I’m like, oh, let’s give people stuff because we, like, once people try our stuff, the chances of people sampling and then buying, it’s pretty high. So for us, we are like, let’s sample until the cows come home. Like, let’s do that Now.

Obviously there is a limit. We have to have some discretion of, okay, is this a person with a community? Do we think that like, you know, the name will be spread well, but yeah, I mean I, I love like when people are like, oh, I found it from somebody’s event. Like, that’s my favorite way. ’cause it’s like in that intimate setting too, where you can talk about it.

So, yeah. Yeah. I’ve, I, I always think that that’s really interesting. I did a video on that yesterday of like, don’t be too cool to answer your dms. I think it’s kind of the same thing as the founder. I was telling Mike yesterday, we were at this huge event and. I was dressed up as her gummy, like just farting around at the booth, and Clay was laughing and I looked at Clay and I go, do you think like, wait, should I post this?

And he goes, well, why not? I go, do you think that’s weird to show that? Like I was like, people in line think I’m the mascot. Like they actually don’t know. I’m one of the founders. Like, they probably are like, oh, hey girl, like, you’re the mascot they paid to be. I’m like, no, I own this shit. You know? So I, I remember thinking, that’s weird.

And I’m like, no, that’s cool. Like, what else am I gonna do on a Sunday morning? I don’t know. Like, it felt like it was, it was fun to meet people and it, it keeps it real, it keeps it human. So, yeah. I try to not be too cool for it. But yeah, I mean, I, I, I, obviously, there’s certain degrees to that. Like I can’t be at everything all the time or give away everything.

But if I wanna dress up like the gummy and go to the booth, why not?

Emily Hirsh: Yeah. Well I love that. I love that you’ve kept the connection. Yeah. It makes it fun. And the personal touch Yeah. In the brand, even as you guys have scaled mm-hmm. So big that you’re in stores and like Yeah, it’s fun. Becoming such a mainstream product.

It’s, yeah, it’s cool. It’s been fun.

Angie Lee: I know, I, that was just so funny. That just happened yesterday and Clay was laughing and I was like, should I be in the gummy costume? He is like, why not? I’m like, ’cause people are gonna think I’m just the mascot. He is like, who cares? I’m like, yeah, you’re right. Who cares?

Like they probably had no idea, you know? But like no other founders were at their booth. No other girls were there who own. ’cause I know some of the girls who own this company, it’s like they’re not there anymore. ’cause it gets so big. They’re like, why would I be there? But I’m like, dude, once in a while it feels so good.

Yeah.

Emily Hirsh: Once in a while. Oh, it feels so nice. Connection. Nice. A few

Angie Lee: times a month or even a few times a year. Like nothing is better than someone walking up to and be like, oh my God, my sister uses this for her. Period cramps, or my dad’s been using this for, you know, PTSD or pain and it’s helped him so much, and they give you a hug.

You’re like, holy shit, this is real. Like, this is the coolest thing ever. So

Emily Hirsh: I, I think that’s like the connection and also the connection to why you started in the first place. Yeah. And, and I’ve, at times in my business, forgotten that. It’s like you get into such, I mean, you’re not in this deep of the team and stuff, but I think you can get so deep into like the business stuff that you’re like, wait, what are we doing?

Why are we doing this? Yeah,

Angie Lee: you do. ’cause it’s just numbers going in and out. Like if you log into the dashboard, it’s Susie Smith. Purchase order, not money, money in, money out, money in. It’s literally just a, you might as well just go play Tetris. Like it’s just a game. It’s just virtual, it’s so in the cloud, it’s like what is even real?

It’s just numbers. You’re just, it’s just math. So unless you add a human to that, that’s why I love answering dams and love going to events. I’m like, oh, this is a real person who’s really struggling or has really liked the products. Like, I wanna hear from her. Sometimes I’ll voice them ’cause I wanna hear their voice, like I’m just a creep like that.

I think I just love community building. Like that’s my favorite thing. And so it was almost like I’m a community builder who happened to have a physical product versus like, I must build this physical product. And that’s a different route. I mean, there’s many people who’ve made millions of dollars just going hardcore e-comm, like running the traditional long form sales page ads and like very, a little bit more of like just the masculine, like run ads to that, that product.

And that can work. I don’t know if it’s still working that way more. I was gonna say, I don’t argue that.

Emily Hirsh: I don’t know how that would work. Was that very 2015. But like I,

Angie Lee: yeah, I’m like, I know some guys who did that and built some big settlement brands. But I feel like now, I don’t know if maybe it’s just me as a consumer as well, I’m like.

I wanna feel your heart. I wanna know, like if I’m following an influencer and she shares something, like I wanna, I wanna hear from her a little bit of her story that makes me wanna buy it. My, if not, I might as well just go to Amazon. I don’t respond to that. But I think there’s millions of people that probably do still respond to those cheesy ads that are like, buy this fat loss pill, and then there’s like no face behind it.

I mean, it works. Unfortunately. I, I can’t, I think, I

Emily Hirsh: think today though, like the, the connection is just becoming, especially as we were talking about with ai, more and more important to have that. Yeah. Don’t you think so? Yeah, I do.

Angie Lee: Okay. Because like even you as a consumer, like are you, are you wanting to feel that connection before you buy something?

Sometimes

Emily Hirsh: I would say, unless it’s like, I know I’m like actively, like I need to buy. Like I didn’t have a connection when I bought this right off Amazon, but something that I would regularly use. Yeah. I would choose, you know, if I was like, oh, I’m gonna buy, you know. Ccb DI actually wasn’t like searching right for CBD gummies.

I don’t remember. Somehow probably I got a sample. Yeah, I got a sample. You somewhere know somewhere. So yeah, like having that connection. And it also keeps you loyal, I feel like.

Angie Lee: Yes. Retention, I think people, but sometimes that’s, that’s like the untrackable retention, right? Sometimes it is, but it’s like, wait, is that because she fell in love with the story and the founders, or is that because she really needs, you just don’t know.

Sometimes it’s like brand versus, it’s like brand marketing versus direct marketing. And so sometimes I tell my brother that, who’s very, like, he’s a little bit more direct in numbers and what’s the ROI of this? And I’m like, it’s gonna pay us back so big one day. You won’t even know. He’s like, okay, well where’s the, where’s it, where’s this now?

How is this gonna work? I’m like, just, just wait. Because she’s then gonna tell that person who it will, it will all build and it’ll grow. So I’m really big on the, the brand and the community and yeah, I mean, I, people will DM me and be like, oh, I, I I live in Colorado. I have access to other cannabis, but one, I love your stuff better.

And I just love you and Mike and I just, I’d rather just order from you guys. You’re like, that’s really cool. And I’m like, well, I do that too, though. I don’t realize that I do that.

Emily Hirsh: Yeah. I think I was gonna say, I don’t think it’s always a conscious thing. Yeah. I think you have that connection and so you just like, you know, buy from that brand.

Yeah. But it’s not always conscious. The other thing is trust. Right? Like especially in a product that you’re consuming into your body, I trust that the ingredients and the product will be quality, whereas there’s so much tricking you on that today For sure. Where it looks like it’s quality and then you find out it’s not.

So,

Angie Lee: yeah, it’s a good point. It’s like if it’s a sweater, it’s a little bit less trust that’s needed. I’m like, okay, I either they’re gonna like it or not, but when you’re ingesting something into your body that’s supposed to help you sleep and help with anxiety, I mean that’s, it could be a serious thing for a lot of people that Yeah, I would hope that they feel like we’re not gonna give you shit that hasn’t been triple tested.

Like isn’t third party tested. I mean, we we’re serious about that. So I, I do agree that, yeah. When it comes to supplements, I’m. I’m like, so suss now. I will not buy anything on Amazon. People are like, buy fish oil on Amazon. I’m like girl, no, no, no, no, no, no. If your fish oil is $7 mm-hmm. It’s gonna show up and it’s gonna smell so gross.

Where did that come from? No way. So I got, I buy like really high quality stuff or, and or if I know the founder because I won’t risk it.

Emily Hirsh: Yeah, same. Or if, yeah, like I’ll, I think a lot of my stuff is like recommended by either holistic, which is bad. Maybe

Angie Lee: I should trust Amazon, but I’m like, no, I don’t trust this.

No, I don’t

Emily Hirsh: think you’re supposed to trust Amazon for something else, but I think a

Angie Lee: lot millions of people do. And I’m like, oh my god, girl. No. When I ever talk about that, people like, wait, really? I’m like, yeah girl. Do not get like, no, no, no, no, no. Don’t get your shit on No.

Emily Hirsh: Not supplement and get close.

Yeah, yeah.

Angie Lee: You get your clothes for sure. Save money there. Don’t try to be skimpy with your, with your wellness stuff because that’s not where you wanna be. Cheap. No agree.

Emily Hirsh: I wanna talk about events ’cause you have. Created some really incredible events. And you went on, like, let’s talk about the journey too, of, I love the story from the beginning where you had flyers up

Angie Lee: Yeah.

Emily Hirsh: For your first events, like before the internet, and then you’ve created big events and then you kind of got burned out and now you’re back in them. So talk to me about that a little.

Angie Lee: I love events so much. They’re like my favorite thing in the world. I wish I could just do an event every single weekend.

Emily Hirsh: That’s actually how I feel at this point too, about events, right? Because the connection.

Angie Lee: Yeah. And everybody’s just, just the

Emily Hirsh: experience.

Angie Lee: Yeah. They’re just the best and everyone’s behind their computer now, so it’s like, oh God. So I think we’re craving them more than ever too after like COVID and all that stuff.

I think we all just wanna get outside and meet. Yeah. I mean, events are, are are an animal. They’re their own beast because the, the sales psychology of what it takes to get somebody to trust you enough to get on a plane and travel and go to something. It’s a harder sale than it is to buy a course or anything like that.

You know, if you’re at home, you’re like, click, you can click a, click a button, buy a course, do it in your own, in your own comfort of your own home. Yeah, I mean, events have been interesting. You know, I always knew I wanted to get into them. I think I was, what about 25, 26 in Chicago when I put on my first little meetup?

Had no idea what I was doing. It was out in this park. I think it was illegal because you had to have a permit, but I didn’t know this was a thing, like permits. So I just went out there, invited some girls, put up flyers at the train station, brought a little boombox. I think I brought like a little boxy wooden thing that my ex made so it could be my stage.

And I just knew from that first event I was like, oh my God, this is what I’m gonna do for the rest of my life. Like, I’m gonna bring women together. At the time I was talking about fitness and motivation and I would, we would do this workout and then I would would talk to them and that was a really cute format.

So yeah, I did that for years and then it kind of escalated into, it was 2018 where I was doing these smaller events and meetups, and then I was like, wait, hold on. I wanna put on the most fun, the most Epic Women’s Entrepreneur event. Like a lot of them were cool, but I feel like, and no shade to them. I felt like they were very either boring or just kind of like.

I don’t know. I was like, I wanna, I wanna do this like different, like I wanna make this like a party. And so I put on pace to be brave and it was really, really fun and it became a big hit. I did that for a few years and then unfortunately the one that I really wanted to do was gonna be in Chicago. My goal was 3000 women and that was supposed to be March, 2021.

Wait, 2020. Yeah. So obviously that didn’t happen. I was super bummed. So I had to, I had to take a few years off from events and I think in that time it was like, okay. Reset, recalibrate, what do I wanna do next? And yeah, I feel like I’m getting that bug again to, to do them. ’cause they’re just, they’re awesome.

And I just did the re this one called recess, which is really fun here in Austin. That one was more dance based, but now I’m kind of brainstorming again, ways to do ones that are, it is entrepreneurship, but it’s made fun. It’s like, how do we combine a party with women who are also really ambitious? So yeah, it’s been, what was the

Emily Hirsh: biggest event that you’ve had most attendees,

Angie Lee: Peasy.

Brave 2000.

Emily Hirsh: Yeah. That’s amazing. It was really fun. That’s big. I didn’t know that, that it was that big.

Angie Lee: Yeah, it was really fun. It was 2019, right before it was October, 2019. And then, you know, obviously what happened March, 2020. So, and was it a one day or a multi-day? Multi-day, two and a half. There was like a Friday night VIP and all day Saturday.

All day Sunday. Yeah. Which was a lot. I would not, I, I no desire to do that again and to do, to do that again. I would do full one day, maybe a day and a half, but I have no desire to do the full three day big conferences anymore. I don’t think people want that as much anymore. I think the, the market has changed.

I think women are looking for one day, maybe two day, but more, a little bit more chill vibes like live podcasts and we’re gonna break into groups and talk. And it doesn’t have to be this, I’m gonna sit for nine hours, day one and day two, so, you know, 20 something hours of sitting and watching people speak, taking notes, get up and leave in this like dark hotel room.

I think those days are over. I’m like, I want my events to be. Where you feel like you’re really part of an experience. You’re not just sitting there staring at some girl being like, I’m amazing. Okay, wish you guys the best. You know? It’s like, what the fuck is this? It’s so lame. So I think that’s where I got frustrated is I was like, is this the same like fluffy rah rah bullshit?

Like we need to fix this. So I think that’s what I’m also still trying to figure out is I’m like, I wanna sometimes bring in speakers and I wanna create this experience for women, but I don’t want it to be like, believe in yourself. We’re like, oh my God, life changing, you know, life changing. And then like they take notes and leave.

I just, I don’t know. I’m really trying to figure out how can I make it something that. You wanna experience? Yeah. Like more of an experience. Yeah. Really gets women to experience it, so, so we’ll see. I’m kind of noodling on what my next one would be or what that’s gonna look like. I really loved the live podcast.

I did the girls’ bathroom. That was really fun. Yeah, I was at that one because I love that they got to, there was that element of like q and a and it was, I, everything I wanna do is very community based, so I like that it had that, but I, I like that it wasn’t like a full day. Conference where you felt like it was this heavy energy of having to take notes and, you know, so I don’t know, trying to figure out now what the pulse is of what women want and what I can kinda like spearhead a little bit.

So it’s where I’m at with it.

Emily Hirsh: I love that. I love events too. Don’t have that level of experience. But I really like mine. I do big Airbnbs. Oh, fun. Because I don’t want the conference room. Oh, it’s more of like a retreat then, right? Yeah, it’s treat and event combined. Yeah. But same like s I’ve done a retreat yet though.

Break them up into different groups. And that’s, I do dance and breath work and then business workshops, all of it. But it’s smaller. It’s, yeah, we

Angie Lee: might get into that ’cause Clay and I might actually be launching a mastermind together, which is be really fun. So for that, like a few times a year we would do that where we’d run outta cool Airbnb and incorporate stuff like that.

But when it comes to like big events, like I, I love huge events. I, I don’t like, like small. Intimate stuff. I’m very like, for the masses, I don’t like, like me and 20 people and going deep. I’m very like one

Emily Hirsh: Interesting. ’cause I’m like the opposite. Yeah. I, yeah. A lot of people are. I, one day I would be like, it’d be sick to have a 2000 person in event.

Yeah.

Angie Lee: It’s a lot. It’s heavy though. It’s a lot of work. It’s automotive, but it’s hard to

Emily Hirsh: make that not a conference, like Yeah. That size. Yeah. How do you make that an experience? It pretty

Angie Lee: much is a conference ish, but just adding in stuff where it can be a little bit more interactive. But yeah, everybody’s different.

I feel like there’s two different personality types. Like I love to get on stage, speak, entertain, get off, I’m out, I’m going to sleep, I’m gonna go eat. Like that’s my, that’s my work and then I leave. I’m not a, like, I wanna go deep with 20 girls and hear about their life story and transform their life.

Like that sounds so draining to me. Yeah. So my energy’s very one to many.

Emily Hirsh: Yeah. But yeah, it’s so interesting because I think I would be so drained if I went, I mean, I could not do your comedy kid. Yeah. Like

Angie Lee: that’s

Emily Hirsh: so funny. You do make such an incredible job. See, I love that we’re both saying that because it’s just knowing

Angie Lee: your personality type too, and your energy type.

’cause I have many friends who are like, you are like, oh my God, I wanna bring like 10 women together and. You know, go deep and know each other. I’m like, that is so, like, that’s so, it’s almost like if I’m just speaking, if I was to go on stage and speak in front of 10 people, that’s harder for me than 10,000 people.

’cause it’s so intimate. I can see all of them. It’s almost like more awkward where if it’s like a lot of people, it’s just like, oh, it’s a unit of people. Like, it just feels like oneness. Wow. So weird. Yeah.

Emily Hirsh: And so at the, at the 2000 person event, did you run the whole thing or did you have guests come in?

So you were like on stage stage? No, no, I had other

Angie Lee: speakers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had many other speakers. I spoke for like three different chunks of it. Yeah, like Shalene Johnson came in. She was amazing. Yeah. I had a bunch of different speakers. And then Sam Skelly, my good friend, one of my besties, she did breath work.

And spoke as well. Breath work with

Emily Hirsh: 2000 people.

Angie Lee: Yeah. Yeah. I’m like, wait. Oh my God. Yeah.

Emily Hirsh: Did they lay down and everything? Oh, they loved it.

Angie Lee: Yeah. They were sitting in chairs. Okay. Yeah, they loved it. She did pause. That’s cool. Breath work. Yeah. Lori Harder was there. She spoke. I think Chris also did this one.

Yeah. My brother got up. We spoke about soul. Yeah, it was a whole, I mean, two days were packed with stuff and then at night we had like a silent disco party. We had all the different stations around where brands like paid to be there. It was a whole thing. I mean, it cost me a lot to put on though. So that’s where I’m like, events now are even more, I guess.

Well, I, I experienced that with recess because of cost of stuff. So that was already like 250, 200 $80,000 to put on, which is like,

Emily Hirsh: and were you profitable with the,

Angie Lee: A little bit, yeah. Thank God I actually was because of affiliate cuts with the speakers, but, and now I’m like, do I wanna put $300,000 up to put on an event?

I better be selling there and making money back. So if I wouldn’t have done that affiliate cut with, with one of the speakers on stage, I wouldn’t have, I would’ve been in just in the red from it. So, and I think events, events for me are a brand builder, so I’m not doing them to make money. I’m doing right, but you

Emily Hirsh: don’t wanna lose a bunch of money.

But I don’t wanna lose though

Angie Lee: either. So that’s kind of the dance that I’m always playing. Yeah, so I’m always playing long game with it. I’m not like, okay, I’m wanna host this little experience and then sell them really hard at the end. I’ve always been like, I want the. Event to be the experience. So I’m always trying to figure out a different way to monetize it through sponsors or other ways.

So, so yeah, they’re a trip though, because they are, it’s hard to fill a room and it’s, you know, and to financially make events work. It’s a lot.

Emily Hirsh: It is a lot. Yeah. It’s just a different game. And it’s a, it’s like a long marketing game too. You’ve gotta have it, you know, marketed for a while, whereas a lot of times, you know, digital, you can do like a one week live launch.

Yeah. Right. You’re like, cool, got got, but an event, you gotta talk about it a lot for months.

Angie Lee: Yeah. I mean, I talked about it for a year, a whole year to a year and a half to sell out there. Well, so you

Emily Hirsh: sold that event a year to a year and a half before? Oh

Angie Lee: yeah. I talked about it every single day, I think for 400 days.

Emily Hirsh: Wow.

Angie Lee: Yeah. So when people are like, oh, how did you do it? I’m like, dude, I hustled my face off. I talked about it. I made sure I was paying girls to get on their stories. I mean, it was like a hundred bucks. I would pay them to get and talk about it. Hey, here’s a free ticket. Share it with your girls. Hey, here’s a free ticket.

Share it with your girls. I mean, I was just doing the most grassroots organic. Hustle that I could do because I wasn’t running ads to it. So I would say, you know, hey this girl, you have a podcast or you have a community you wanna come. They’d be like, sure, I’d be cool. Just do a few stories on it. And then they would get a commission and a cuts and they were making money.

Like it was like we were just me and I had a assistant that was helping me. We were just in so many people’s dms. Just like hustling for I think, yeah, about 400 ish days. ’cause it was a little bit more than a year. So it’s crazy. That’s good to know. It goes by like that. Know that it

Emily Hirsh: was that far in a advance.

Yeah, because these, I don’t think people realize that

Angie Lee: girls, these girls will be like, Hey Angie, I wanna host like a 500 women event next weekend or like in next month. Yeah. Or even next month.

Emily Hirsh: Yeah.

Angie Lee: I’m like, that’s if you have lifers that are ready to go, let’s go. But girl, like give it a little more time.

Like I always tell people, give yourself a few more months than you think to, to promote an event. ’cause you gotta make sure all the details are in order and it’s a lot of stuff.

Emily Hirsh: What’s your like ideal timeframe? I guess it depends on the size, but what would you say? I

Angie Lee: would say at least six months.

Because then people with their schedules too. I think the thing I have to realize too, and this is where. The beauty of courses and stuff is you don’t have to obviously work around people’s schedules, but women have children, they have to get daycare, they have to, you know, get nannies. They have to take time off work or their husband does.

Like, it’s a whole thing to get on the flight and give people time to look at their schedule. I think that that’s something I was always really clear about is I’m like, Hey, it’s like a wedding. If I tell them a year in advance, they probably can go. So I think that also helped me too, is I like gave women a lot of time and then of course there was like a lull, like bought a bunch of digits lull and then as it got closer they did it again.

I also did have daycare there, which was like pretty badass. Yeah. Wow. I paid for daycare and I paid for women that could watch the kids and then I had like a pumping room for one of them. Women had like a section where they could go breastfeed. So like I was very like inclusive to women in That’s cool.

That’s smart. All their stages of life. ’cause I was like, I will, I would want that one day as a mom, I’m like, where’s my pumping room? Or where’s my, or pull my boob. I wouldn’t care. But like, I, I, you know, I just felt like that was a huge deterrent when I was serving people. Right. It, objection, need daycare.

I’m like, call my team. I’m like, we’re gonna do daycare then. Okay. We have daycare there. Like, they were like, oh wow. So like every time there was objection. I’d be like, how do we fix that? Okay. How do we fix that? Like, how do we, how do we make it a no brainer to come? That’s good. So, yeah. Yeah. I’m kind of like a shark when it comes to that.

I’m like. What are all the objections? Let’s solve them. Yeah. To make it a yes. Yeah. And it, I mean, women still to this day, not to be cheesy, but like, they’re like, that was literally the greatest experience ever. Like that changed the trajectory of my life and my business. So I’m like, what the, like I, ’cause I’m, I didn’t experience it.

I was in it. So I’m like, really? So it is cool to think that like it was worth it for women who spent a lot of time and money to go. That makes me happy to know it was, it was worth it for them. It’s like the most rewarding thing, right? Yeah. To be able to have that impact and it’s, it’s always that they met a friend there or the energy.

It was never like the content. Never, never, never. I tell women that I’m like, unless it is a mastermind or a retreat where that is what you’re teaching, I have surveyed. Thousands, probably now 3000 women. Between a few different events, maybe three to 5,000 women I have surveyed. I am not fucking with you.

Maybe one has said it was like the sales training you did. Every single one said the same. Two things. I met a girlfriend, I met one of my best friends. I feel less alone. And I needed to be around the energy, your energy, and the energy of the other speakers and women, and it inspired me to take action.

That’s it. So that’s what I’m selling. I it’s not, they, I worked so hard on those PowerPoints. They didn’t, they didn’t care. They don’t remember it. I stayed up till like 2:00 AM the night before. I was like fixing my font, you know? I was like, ah, what do I do? I was like, ’cause I dealt like a little sales training, sales confidence thing there and.

To this day. I remember even Clay told me, he’s like, babe, they’re not gonna care about that. I’m like, no. They are like, the font has to be perfect. They’re gonna be taking notes. He’s like, it’s not what they’re gonna remember. I’m like, what do you mean? He is like, why do you think they’re getting on this plane?

I’m like, I to come learn. He is like, they’re not, they can learn that in a webinar. They’re coming to literally hang out and have a good time and be reminded of their power. Like, just sell that. Just be, you can literally get up there and fart. Like they don’t care. So I, I always tell women that, I’m like, you already won.

Like, it’s usually not the curriculum unless it is a mastermind where they are coming out and that is one of the sections that you teach. Like that’s very different for the setting you’re doing. But for girls who wanna host like big fun experiences for women, women aren’t there to like get something they can watch on YouTube, they can go watch that when they get home.

They wanna go be with other women. Yeah. And, and it make women are lonely. Impact is

Emily Hirsh: always like how you made them feel, always how you made them feel and the emotions of it

Angie Lee: and how you connect them with others. ’cause I didn’t realize how many women are actually really lonely. That was the biggest thing I learned from events is women are actually really lonely and I have a lot of girlfriends, so I don’t feel that, and I’ve had to work on that, but like.

Most women don’t have that support and they don’t have someone who believes in them when it comes to entrepreneurship. Their husband’s like, what are you doing? Which is sad. They don’t have a supportive partner. Maybe they don’t have other girlfriends to talk to about business. You know, that’s hard like it is.

And so it’s hard if you have nobody to talk to about your dreams, like your neighborhood doesn’t care, your family doesn’t care. You don’t have friends who care, who are you gonna do? You go on the internet and you join communities or you go to events. So that was huge too. I was like, oh my God. So many girls are like, I’m getting on this plane just so I can meet other people who think like me.

Yeah, it’s so true. So something to keep in mind too. People will pay to be in the room with community.

Emily Hirsh: Did you find that a lot of the sales and the sales of your event now come from your audience? Or are you able to reach outside your audience?

Angie Lee: Yeah. What do you mean? Like, are they like

Emily Hirsh: warm, I guess Warm traffic, like

Angie Lee: Yeah.

Oh, it’s definitely warm. And then they usually tell a friend. I’m really big on, I still think they’re, that will never go away is just. Word of mouth. So I always believe if a girl had a really great experience in my community or at one of my events, like the chances that she’s gonna tell a friend, like, dude, come with me next time.

So we did a lot of BOGO deals. I remember like, bring a girlfriend and then, you know, you literally get the ticket. Well, she gets it for free, or you both can split that one. Then like, I got so creative with gritty ways to make it where women are like, I’m bringing my sister and my friend and my cousin and my, so I just like, yeah, I just wanted to make it a no-brainer for women.

So

Emily Hirsh: yeah, that’s kind of like the key. Yeah, I hope that’s helpful. Make it a no-brainer.

Angie Lee: Make it a no-brainer. And just don’t forget about the community part. Know that’s, like, that word is so cheesy right now, but I love it. It’s like, my favorite thing is think about what will make the experience really fun for them and really enjoyable for them from the minute they click checkout to the minute they get home.

I made sure the experience was dialed in, like when they get on the plane, okay, they land, okay, what is it gonna be like when they get in the room? Okay. And then how are they gonna connect with people? Like I, every single detail is taken care of. So I think that’s what makes. My event’s really good is I care.

I give a shit about every moment of it. Like, what’s the song here and what are they gonna like? I just love it.

Emily Hirsh: The experience. Yeah. Yeah. It’s just fun. The experience. It’s

Angie Lee: fun. I should be a wedding planner, actually. Not that sounds miserable, but I just love that part of it. It was, I love planning them. Is your vision to

Emily Hirsh: have more like big 2000 plus again?

Oh,

Angie Lee: maybe. I, I, I’m either, either that or maybe like that, but like it’s more of the format is like the girl’s bathroom, but like 500 women and that a few times a year. So it’s like I speak, I do comedy, I do some standup, and then there’s the live podcast. I guess. I don’t know. That’s kind of what I’m trying to figure out.

What format do I wanna do now? Because I don’t just wanna, I don’t wanna do a ton of speakers for two days. That doesn’t feel as like fun anymore or as aligned. Yeah. I

Emily Hirsh: think that’s also like, again, I don’t think that’s what people want anymore. I know I don’t, because information is on overload.

Angie Lee: Mm-hmm. I know,

Emily Hirsh: but the panels are good.

The live podcasts, like panels like that. ’cause you get what you wouldn’t get, you know from Yeah,

Angie Lee: exactly. See, they get to ask a question and be featured and be seen. I’m always asking like, how can I make them the star? How can I make them be seen as the community? So that felt good ’cause a lot of those girls asking questions they like really felt like they got to be seen.

And it wasn’t just some, like, I’m a motivational speaker who makes 10 figures like by my book. Like I just, that just doesn’t feel good for me anymore. So I’d rather have it be Sarah in the audience who’s like, Hey, this is what I’m really struggling with. I know I’m not alone. Who else is feeling this way?

And we’re all like hello. So yeah, that’s something I’m trying to double down on is like, as female entrepreneurs, we. Feel lonely or I don’t know about you, but like I feel this all the time where I’m like, I need accountability. ’cause I’m alone working at home all the time. I’m like, I need people to check in with too.

So,

Emily Hirsh: yeah. And just get out of the like day-to-day energy.

Angie Lee: Yeah. The rut of it. Yeah. Yeah.

Emily Hirsh: You’ve talked about a lot the like, I think you call it like the soft girl era. Yeah. To like saying that’s not what I wanted. And now where you’re at, everyone has

Angie Lee: a different term for Yeah, yeah.

Emily Hirsh: Whatever. But it is, I think there is like this movement, the pendulum swung really far to like get your homestead and don’t work.

And which I have chickens like Yeah. Yeah. All for it. Chickens are so

Angie Lee: cool.

Emily Hirsh: But just, it was like the, there was the girl boss and then there was like, now we don’t like the girl boss and you gotta be in your feminine. Yeah. And now I feel like there’s just this like it, it came up at my event that I just had last week where I felt like there was this energy of a lot of the women thinking that they had to sacrifice, like.

I don’t want the bigger business because I think that means that I can’t be present with my kids and I can’t, you know, be a mom. And I’m like, we can still dream big and be a present mom. And so I like called it out at my event. Oh my, my God. Like I shifted the event a little bit because it was just, that was a theme was like this, like, oh, maybe I won’t dream big anymore.

’cause I think it means that I, you know, can’t be present, or I’m gonna go back to feeling how I was so burned out like I was a year ago. And so, yeah, I would love to dive into that with you. That’s good.

Angie Lee: Yeah. I’m, I’ve been interviewed like 10 times now on it because my posts went viral on it, so I didn’t, I didn’t realize they would, I kind of did, but I was like, damn, I’m hitting on something here.

Like, this is hot right now. So it’s a lot. And I almost feel like I preemptively, because I myself even bought into it a little bit. And I think some of it was because of COVID. We were slowing down, we were at home, and then people thought, oh, let’s, let’s make this trendy and sexy. Let’s kind of sell this image.

And I think anytime you’re in the extremes, it’s easy to sell. It’s easy to sell. Hustling girl boss, it’s easy to sell. I’m frolicking in the field in my organic cotton dress. I don’t, you know, I have no worries, no responsibilities. My husband does everything and I just, I’m here with my five children just breastfeeding all day.

And I’m a trad wife. And it’s like, first of all, girl ballerina farms, I love her. You’re making millions of dollars off a content creation, honey. You’re a boss. Like own it. I wish they’d be honest. So that’s a whole different convo, but I think I kind of fell for that of like, oh, is this the. Is this what I need to do then to be in my feminine goddess essence?

Right? And especially in Austin, it’s like that kind of became the hot thing. And when I moved here, full transparency, I felt like so many women here were going into that. Like, Hey, I’m, I need to move out to the middle of nowhere and I gotta have chickens and I gotta homestead. I have to home birth and I have to homeschool and I have to homestead.

And it literally wasn’t until recently that I got so clear with myself. I’m like, wait. I’m like, girl, shut off Instagram. Hold on. Get really quiet. Okay. Not thinking about what anyone else is doing, even though that might be incredible for them, what would you actually do? And I’m like, oh my God. I was like, wait, I wouldn’t homestead, I wouldn’t home birth and I would not homeschool, but I am a very crunchy, healthy, holistic woman who likes to be home.

Yet I’m being honest. I don’t actually wanna do any of those. Like those all sound. When I’ve heard about the realities, I’m like, I’m good. But like that didn’t come to me until I was quiet enough with my own truth. And the same thing with the soft girl thing. I’m like, yeah, I think that can work for some women.

I’m like, wait, let me get quiet again. Who have I been since I was six years old with lemonade stands outside hustling to start businesses. That’s who I am. And if I wanna run away from that, that’s fine, but like this is who I’ve always been and I don’t think it makes me masculine. I think being creative is ultimately the most feminine thing you could do.

And I think that you do need some masculine energy in business to get shit done, but why can’t that be sexy and be cool too? Like you need both energies. So I just think that the extremes just got so weird. I’m like, I don’t consider myself a girl boss, I guess. And I’m definitely not like wanting to be a trad wife.

So it’s like I don’t, I don’t know. It’s like this interesting. I kind of, I want it all and I wanna figure out how to find that balance for me. And I want my children to see a mom who, who does cool shit and who dreams not because of they need to see that. So they can necessarily be that I want my daughter or my son to go do what they need to do.

But I, I think because it really coming down to, that’s actually just, that’s just who I am. I mean, it’s just, I think a lot of women were denying who they actually are and saying, oh, is this fire? Or is this ambition too much? Will my kids be intimidated by it? Will my husband be intimidated by it? Is it, you know, is it not a good thing?

And I’m like, I, I’ve only seen, you know, if it’s, if obviously if you’re at the point where you’re never seeing your family and you’re only working, that’s a different conversation. But I don’t know, I just think that there’s a way to do it where you’re, where you’re somewhere in the middle. And yeah, I’ve been talking about it a lot lately.

’cause I think a lot of women are like, oh my God, thank God. Because I think we kind of went into that and now we’re like excited again to do stuff. And then we’re like, but wait, I need to be a feminine goddess. Like, God forbid I do anything, ’cause feminines of all about being, and I’m like, but I need to do stuff to feel good.

Like I’m here to do things and create things. And if I don’t get it out of me, I literally die inside. And I experienced that the hard way when I went into that season. I didn’t have to work. So I was like, okay, let me see what this is like. It’s fun for about a month or two. But it’s no different than vacation.

How many times is vacation fun when you check in and then by the end you’re like, oh my God, I wanna go back home

Emily Hirsh: and I can’t wait to get back home. Home. Can’t wait to get back home. I

Angie Lee: want my routines. I actually want the structure. I actually wanna get back to work. If you love what you do, that’s obviously, you know, if you hate what you do, that’s a different conversation.

But it’s kind of that same feeling like why is not fun for seven months? Why is fun for a week? And I, I experienced that of like being very young and retired in a sense. And it was the most depressing thing I’ve ever done in my life. It was the worst thing to happen to me is to get to a place where I’m like, oh, okay, I’ll just frolic every day.

And it was so bad ’cause I created chaos with the space. And I always say, I think this, this line will really resonate with women. If you’re a very highly creative woman who needs to get these things out of you, if you don’t. They just end up festering inside of you. It doesn’t just go away like it eats at you like a disease.

Like it literally like starts to fester. And I think for a lot of women that can fester into depression. And so, yeah, I think it’s just misalignment for a lot of women right now of what’s going on. I think we just need to throw out all the words like feminine, masculine. I’m like, I don’t give a fuck. Like if I wouldn’t have moved to Austin, I wouldn’t even know these terms.

I would’ve just said, oh, this is me. I wake up and I just create cool shit. Like me and my friend were talking about that she lives here. She’s like, dude being when Austin was one of the best and worst things for me, I’m like, I know. Because the jargon here was like so intense for both of us when we moved and she was like, dude, I loved who I was and I didn’t even know these terms.

Like this wasn’t even a thing. Am I being masculine? Am I being feminine? Am I, you know, da da da? Like going to all these sister circles and shit. Like, this is how you be a woman. I’m like, dude, being a woman looks like so many different things. Like when I’m on stage, I feel so fucking powerful and womanly.

Like I don’t think that makes me a dude, but, and then I feel more womanly doing that than sometimes if I’m. I don’t know, like doing something that, like on Instagram is supposed to be like feminine, like baking sourdough. I have no desire to bake sourdough, you know? So like that’s where I think, I dunno, I’m probably talking too much now with, but it’s like an interesting, you just gotta know who you are.

Emily Hirsh: It’s, it’s so good. It’s so good. And our and our brain likes to go the right, the right, wrong. The linear. Yes. We have to assign, like you gotta be feminine, you gotta be mascot. And it’s so true. It’s like you gotta figure out what works for you. Yeah. Just be you. And I mean, I really believe that you can have it all and I think that everybody’s definition is different of that.

But I think that’s the thing. It’s like if you are. Working a ton because you’re running and you’re not loving what you’re doing, but you feel like that’s where your worth is tied up in. And you can’t be present. You can’t be still. Okay. That’s something to, to look at. Right? But I’m the same, like, I’ve had lemonade stands in businesses since I was six.

Like Yeah. We’re so similar. It’s just in me, and I see it in my daughter who’s eight. Like I don’t push her into that. And she’s like, I’m start a podcast mom. You know? Like, that’s so

Angie Lee: cool. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think it’s like being creative.

Emily Hirsh: Yeah. I think and, and then it’s, you can have a big business and work hard and also be present and she like, define whatever you want your life to look like.

And I, and I also think it’s a lot of seasons. It’s like I just hosted an event and came off, you know, going to a mastermind, hosting an event, being away from my kids, and then we’re about to travel for a month. Like, mm. It’s, it’s, you make the rules. It’s like

Angie Lee: this it’s, well this is, it’s like the ocean, right?

It, which is. Kinda cheesy to say, but it’s like the, it’s like ebb and flow. Yeah. It’s like with my kids a lot. Okay. Now I need a little break back to my shit. With my kids. It’s probably like a pulse. It’s a pulse. That’s the word I’m looking for. Yeah. It’s almost like pulsing. No different than your relationship.

You’re gonna have seasons where it’s awesome. We’re doing so well. Oh my God. We’re like so disconnected right now. Okay. We’re doing awesome. I think that’s womanhood. I think that’s every, that’s life. That’s, that’s probably how it all feels, right? It’s the

Emily Hirsh: key is being able to be in tune with yourself. I think that’s like the, where the thread comes back is like, can you come back to yourself and shut off the Instagram and the noise and all the things external and come back to yourself.

At my event last week, I got, I made, had hats made. This you already know because that’s my thing. Like you already know what you want and what’s in alignment for you. Like I could sit up here all day and tell you like what I do. Yeah. But that’s not the right

Angie Lee: way. Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah. I love it. And like I think women who are homestead home birthing and homeschooling, I’m like, girl, you’re cr like that is, that is, holy shit.

That’s a lot to sign up for. And like, it’s just so funny when I was talking to my mom about it the other day, she’s like, wait. Girl. What? What are you? She’s like, Ange, what are you? You’re not like, did you do wanna do a home birth one day? ’cause you actually do, or, ’cause you saw some cute videos about it where people just showed like, oh, we had ’em in my bathtub in 15 minutes.

You know? I’m like, ’cause I saw videos. She’s like, no, do what you wanna do. She’s like, what do you actually really wanna do if nobody knew? I’m like, I’m getting an epidural. Like, she’s like, okay. Like she’s like helped me a lot with that of like, come back to who you are because it’s so easy to get sold the movie that you’re seeing online or even some of your best friends.

I have best friends who that is so awesome for them. I’m so happy they did that. Like I have heard the coolest experiences and this is how I know I’m maturing and evolving, is I can hear her experience of exactly how that happened and I’m like, that is so cool. Nope. Absolutely not. So for me, still not right for me, still not right for me.

So you’re like, wow, the fact that she’s selling it is awesome and I’m still like, absolutely not. Is like, wow, that takes such a level of self-awareness to be like, Nope. You know, like I just, yeah, I think same thing with entrepreneurship. You gotta know what type of business model do you want. I don’t think every woman’s meant to be a speaker.

If you don’t wanna cool, be a writer. Like, you gotta know what you want. And I think that that’s really what it comes down to. You already know.

Emily Hirsh: Yeah. I really, you already think that? That’s it. That’s so good. And there’s

Angie Lee: so much noise and I’ve had to stop. Yeah. I can’t follow like anything anymore. ’cause it just really got to me.

So I’m, I think a lot of it’s social media that sells this idea of something and, and it also romanticizes it, right? We’re romanticizing entrepreneurship. It’s just easy. We’re romanticizing parenthood, we’re romanticizing marriage. Oh, we just frolic all day. Like nobody is showing what does that actually look like?

Like what would that actually look like? What are the realities of that? What type of person would I have to be to be taking care of chickens and cows and shit? Like I don’t wanna be clean up chicken poop. Like I don’t wanna, what does that actually look like to homestead? That’s a lot of work. Okay. What does that actually look like to like.

Homeschool your children. Okay. Are you gonna do that? Who’s gonna, you know, like who’s paying for that? Who’s gonna do that? Like, where are you fitting in your life? Like I just think that you really gotta actually look at it, not just the sexy, glamorous 32nd reel.

Emily Hirsh: Yeah. And I also think sometimes you gotta experience it to know you don’t want it.

Angie Lee: Exactly. Yeah. That’s

Emily Hirsh: wisdom.

Angie Lee: Right? Or see your, yeah. And I think, or just go see Yeah, people close to you through it and be like, oh, that’s interesting. I also think that like, same thing with entrepreneurship. I don’t think it’s for everyone. So if somebody only saw the cool clips. I’d be like, don’t romanticize this, don’t romanticize this.

Here’s what it actually looks like. I think like with anything, you just gotta know who you are. But yeah, I, I felt the, that’s cool that that’s coming up for you because I feel the shift is happening.

Emily Hirsh: It was very present in my event last week that so much that I shifted, like workshops around it. ’cause I was like, hold on.

Like, oh my God,

Angie Lee: this makes

Emily Hirsh: me so happy. Yeah. This is so crazy. Literally this exact thing, because I think we’re, we’re swinging so far. Are these moms too? Yeah. And they, would you say they, they feel like they work too much or No, they just, they down slow down? No, they think they work too much and so they have to slow down.

So like their number one priority is, I can’t work too much. Like I have to slow down ’cause otherwise I’m not gonna be present. Is it because their husband

Angie Lee: and kids are telling them to, or No, they just, no,

Emily Hirsh: they have put it on themselves ’cause of the narrative. And then one was like very like. She, the truth came out like emotional of like, I actually like working more than sometimes being with my kids.

Absolutely. I was just about to say how many of them actually like it? And I think that was the bottom line. Like she was like, I feel like I’m not supposed to feel that way. And so it was so extreme that like these successful, like, you know, a couple of them multi six figure, like could have a seven figure business, we’re like, I think I’m just gonna coast because I don’t wanna work too much.

Which my point was like, if that’s really what you want, that’s fine. There’s nothing wrong with that. Like you don’t have to build the million dollar business. But I knew them and I’m like, that is that really what you want? Like when you fast forward in a year, two years from now to be like, I just stayed in the same place.

Like, no, I know you like, wow. That’s not what you really wanted. This makes

Angie Lee: me like, so it’s, it’s actually like such confirmation and inspiration for me for kids of like, wait, that’s cool that you haven’t had these conversations now ’cause you’re like giving me the motivation to not to like give myself permission to be whatever it is.

’cause we’ve also given this one idea of motherhood, right? Like you have to. Be with your kids X amount of time, or it has to look this certain way. But if that girl is super lit up by her business, that one you mentioned, like she loves what she does. That’s actually one of the greatest things she can do for her kids too.

Right? I know, and that’s like super controversial to say, but like, yeah, I don’t know. I argue whatever’s making the woman feel the most fiery and alive is the hottest, most attractive, most cool, creative, juicy things she can do for herself as a woman. So you should do more of that now when you get to the point where it’s not juicy anymore, AKA, you’re burnt out, then let’s talk about it. Right? And I think you only get burned out, but can’t work at State Farm and hate their lives. You’re you’re talking about women who love what they do, right? So like,

Emily Hirsh: and are in their purpose. And you only get burned out when you’ve lost track of that. I think lost track of the purpose. And to me, my work doesn’t feel like work.

I’m not doing stuff that I don’t wanna do.

Angie Lee: Yeah. But that’s so, I mean, seriously, it’s very fascinating I think from a woman who’s on the other side too. It’s just like so cool to hear because we’ve talked about is like the identity of like, okay, well you, you know isn’t motherhood’s supposed to be your entire purpose and that’s.

End of story period. Like it’s, it’s the best job in the world. So isn’t that supposed to be all you do? And I’m like, that was my belief system literally the last three years. And then I woke up to like, wait, hold on, that’s a wait. We have so much to unpack here. So that’s cool. ’cause you’ve unpacked basically in 30 seconds what my therapist did for like hours and was like, hold on.

That statement is true. And you, you can have other parts of your life still alive. Yeah, well and I think like, please don’t kill all of it for this. ’cause then once you get to this you’re gonna be very resentful. And we’ve had like deep, deep combos of that. So like it’s so cool to hear this.

Emily Hirsh: Well I think we go on cycles, right?

It’s like our par like my mom was a stay-at-home mom for a long time and so we had like stay-at-home mom. Then we went into cycle of like, okay girl boss and you gotta, everybody’s gotta work. And now I think then we are going back to don’t do that and we’re trying to like get in the middle now any extreme right?

Yeah. I just think it’s

Angie Lee: pushed to the extreme and, and then I just think what lights up one woman and what lights up another is gonna be so different. Totally. Literally one of my best friends could be like. I, I don’t wanna do, like, that does not light me up like I am made to be like with my kids 24 7 all day.

And that truly, if that makes her happy as a woman, genuinely happy. Not because society is telling her to. That’s fucking awesome. And I think that we, God made us all in different ways. And then, if I’m honest, like I could see me in the person one day who would be in a therapist’s office. Like I love my kids more than anything.

And like also, I, I kind of wanna, I like my work too. Like, I’m not gonna lie to you guys. Like the feeling of being on a stage in front of hundreds of people is a high that is so fucking good. And it’s coming from a pure place. I’m helping people. It’s not a bad drug. And I’m sure the drug of giving birth is cool too, but like, this is also cool.

So like, why can’t we have different hits? You know, like seeing your kid laugh for the first time. I’m sure that’s a fucking drug, but like so is speaking on stage to people and I love it. I, I was born to do it. And that’s your purpose. Exactly. And I shouldn’t feel shame around it. And I have felt so much preemptive, just already preemptive motherhood shame just from being on Instagram.

Like, once I started thinking about wanting be a mom, I started following all the accounts and I’m like, oh my God, I’m too much. Oh my God, I’m too ambitious. Oh my God, I gotta stop speaking. I gotta stop creating. Wow. I better stop. And like it ruined my life pretty much going into that season, my partnership, he was like, what?

Who is this? Like what are you doing? So isn’t it crazy? I preemptively started to do what the women in your mastermind were saying. Yeah. Isn’t that a trip? So I, ’cause I was like, all right, I don’t wanna be that girl one day who’s like not being feminine goddess motherly enough. And isn’t it amazing how like you don’t know you’re doing it for a while?

Oh yeah. I didn’t know. I can tell you now. It was happening. Yeah. I was just sitting in my room scrolling, feeling like a piece of shit already. I’m like, wait, this is already preemptive mom shaming. Like fuck all the noise. What do you wanna do? Live your life. Don’t overthink it. Right. Like come on. And like women like you who are like, you can figure out both, like it’s not gonna always be easy, but like it’s not rocket science.

You can figure it out if you have help and resources and obviously can hire help and stuff. But, so it’s been helpful, like women like you who Yeah. Yeah. ’cause you’ve got many kids, so it’s like you can do it. You’ve got a bunch of them I can do it with like one, I figure it out. I, I, I

Emily Hirsh: know you can have it all.

Like, that’s my, that’s my purpose to show. Do you get a little

Angie Lee: backlash on that though? It’s very controversial to say out loud, right?

Emily Hirsh: I that I, yeah. Yes and no, but I, I live it. So how can you give me backlash? Right? Like true. What is like,

Angie Lee: wait, real quick, I wanna ask you now I feel like I’m turning the tables when you post about stuff like that, that’s very bold.

Like you can have it all moms, like you can like, have a career that you enjoy and be with your kids. And what is their number one thing that they say, well, must be easy for you because, or No, I can’t because money. Like, ’cause you have the money to hire the resources, right, but the nanny. Yeah, the nanny.

Okay. But

Emily Hirsh: I didn’t in the beginning. Yeah. Right. And so having it all looked different for me 10 years ago.

Angie Lee: But you’re honest about that. Which I like. You’re like, I have a nanny. Like you would never get on the internet and be like, no, I don’t. I mean,

Emily Hirsh: we probably spend, I don’t think I’ve put this number on the podcast, but if I’m doing the math really quick between the kids homeschool and my nanny.

We probably spend close to $90,000 a year just on those two things. Oh. ’cause they are homeschooled by the nanny and go to a farm school. So the cost of, maybe I would do that. Maybe. Okay. Maybe home 20, I was assuming so. $85,000 a year between my nanny and their farm school.

Angie Lee: Dude, that’s more than some people’s salaries.

That is more than most Americans. So I have, I do

Emily Hirsh: like, I’m so grateful for that, grateful for it, and I created it,

Angie Lee: and you have to get it. It wasn’t

Emily Hirsh: luck, you know? But in the beginning when I couldn’t afford a nanny, my habit all was, I worked half the day and I traded with my husband and we were watching my son and I, I had to work at night to build my dream, but I was still there to put him, to breastfeed him and put him to sleep at nap time.

Like,

Angie Lee: so sweet. I was 20 years

Emily Hirsh: old and we couldn’t afford a nanny. Like, wasn’t he gonna be

Angie Lee: emotional? I’m like, you’re like, you were just crushing it at 20. And I’m over there like trying, never even hooked up with a guy yet in college. I’m like, Hey, Brian and Chad, and you’re over there like hustling, staying up, working, breastfeeding.

Oh my God, that’s like, so inspiring. I feel like a little shit. Like, but that was No, because that was my path. Let’s get you, have fun now. Now you can go. That was my path and that was your

Emily Hirsh: path and where exactly, where we’re supposed to be. But I know. So I share the transparent, I have a lot of help. I pay a lot for help so that I can have this life where I work 20 hours a week, train 10 hours a week, whatever.

Angie Lee: Cool. But maybe that’s what I would do. I, when I’m at homeschooling, I mean, I don’t wanna be their teacher all day. No.

Emily Hirsh: I, I don’t either. I’ll pay some

Angie Lee: smart lady maybe to come over, but Yeah. And my nanny’s incredible. She loves figure, she’s

Emily Hirsh: part of our family. We’re about to travel for a month. She’s coming with us.

Like, it’s just an incredible situation. But what I, it’s like imagine the dream reality and then just make it your reality. And it might take a few years. Yeah. But, and there’s steps and you know, again, like Yeah. Having it all, I’ve always felt like I had it all because when I was 20, to me having it all was like, oh my God, I get to be home with my baby and make money.

Angie Lee: Yeah. I have it all.

Emily Hirsh: Yeah. Like, yeah, I have to work while he naps and I’m choosing that and I work when he goes to sleep, but I have it all because I’m not leaving him in daycare.

Angie Lee: That is, yeah. That is happening. Yeah. You gotta redefine what it looks like. Yeah. To have it all. ’cause just having it all doesn’t mean you’re necessarily.

That might mean like, yeah, I, I’m only with the kids in the morning or night, like who knows? Everybody’s definition of all is very different. For some women, it’s 10 hours a week working. For some women, they’re like, no, I wanna work 40, 50. That feels good. That is having it all. So like, you’re right. It’s more of like figuring out what it is for you.

Emily Hirsh: Yeah. And literally like putting it down on paper, like, what is that? And doing that at least like once a year of like, what does that look like? That’s what I do every year. And then that’s what dictates my goals and That’s so cool. My, my actions and

Angie Lee: Cool. Wow. That’s so cool. You figured it out, figured out life.

I’m still

Emily Hirsh: figuring it out. Figured out. Life

Angie Lee: figured out. This, this layer, this thing called life. You figured out game. You check you did it. Yeah.

Emily Hirsh: Well, anything you, you feel like we didn’t touch on? That’s, this was great. I love it. I love it. Yeah. I hope it helps. I talked a lot

Angie Lee: about like community and events and not to deter anyone, like everything I said, I know I’ve mentioned like the hard parts, but I think because I wanna bring the realities to it.

But if you’re excited to do it, like fucking do it. Like it’s the, it’s, it’s such a great experience. So I don’t wanna say any of that to deter them. I just want them to know the realities. What it looks like. ’cause I think it is easy to go on Instagram and see the highlight reel of the party and the event and you don’t see everything that went into it.

So,

Emily Hirsh: yeah. Well I was selfishly asking you questions too. Since I host events, I’m like, okay, yeah,

Angie Lee: yeah. Oh my God, I’m always here to help you and support with that. And same thing with products, you know, it’s cool to see like, oh my God, she has a cool drink, but like, do you see everything that went into that for eight years to like get to that moment?

Oh my God. Like, that’s crazy to think about. So I like to sh I don’t know, I’m just in that season of just like, no bullshit. I’m like, yeah, this is what it really looks like. Doesn’t mean it’s not awesome, but it comes with things that I think people don’t, don’t know so

Emily Hirsh: Well thank you. And where should we send everyone?

We’ll definitely link to Soul. Yes. And probably put a little code for them. Where else? Yeah, go to get

Angie Lee: soul.com. Go to angie lee.com. At Angie Lee Show. On Instagram, come say hi. Pop in my dms and yeah, I can’t wait to say hi.

Emily Hirsh: Yeah, definitely follow her on Instagram. If you wanna laugh, like I love your stories to

Angie Lee: I’m just doing anything where I’m doing luteal rants when I’m in my luteal phase.

Just like unhinged thoughts. So stay tuned. 

Emily Hirsh: I love it. Thank you so much. Of course. Thank you so much.